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To think that there should be a lot more support offered for parents who lose their children through social services?

(181 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

FedupofbeingtoldIcantusemyname Fri 17-Jun-16 13:12:55

I've seen many articles about the fact that quite often parents who lose their children through social services (adoption) will go on to have more and more children, who are usually then removed again. This means the whole cycle goes on and on and more and more children end up in the care system.

I can understand this is often due to the parents trying to replace what they have lost, many of them may have either diagnosed or undiagnosed mental health problems that might have caused them to struggle with parenting in the first place.

IME, social services don't offer enough, or any, support to stop this cycle from being repeated over and over, parents have their children taken and then just left with no thought to what happens next.

I know that their focus is the children, as it should be, and that they have limited resources but Aibu to think that something should be done to help these parents rather than just removing any more children they have?

user1466165815 Fri 17-Jun-16 13:18:41

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attheendoftheday Fri 17-Jun-16 13:19:52

I agree op, but it is difficult with very limited resources.

user1466165815 Fri 17-Jun-16 13:22:27

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WorraLiberty Fri 17-Jun-16 13:23:14

I agree but the provision for people with mental health issues and drug/alcohol addictions, is so inadequate that I don't think SS can do more than they're doing.

CitaloPam Fri 17-Jun-16 13:24:01

Let's not get into the eugenics debate, user.

Mellowautumn Fri 17-Jun-16 13:25:06

Most of the parents that have mulitiple children knowing they will be removed either hAve LD's or MH issues often both - most will have been offered and rejected lots of help. They are technically competant adults with the choice to do this unless they are sectioned which only tends to be done in crisis rather than long term ongoing life issues. Unless we are prepared to take away bodily autonomy or put people in sheltered or custodial housing at a much lower threshold than we do now - there is little we can do.

MyGallbladderIsKnackered Fri 17-Jun-16 13:26:27

Not really a case of eugenics, more like common sense really.

Tiggeryoubastard Fri 17-Jun-16 13:26:35

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FedupofbeingtoldIcantusemyname Fri 17-Jun-16 13:27:05

I'm sure that it would be user but I doubt very much that it will get to that point where parents will be ordered to be sterilised but in the absence of that as an option surely there should be something else?

Mellowautumn Fri 17-Jun-16 13:27:34

Also - they are a very small number - but the misery they keep perpetuating is imesurable

user1466165815 Fri 17-Jun-16 13:28:01

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blueskyinmarch Fri 17-Jun-16 13:29:26

The thing is, at the outset, when the first child is at risk of being removed, the parents will know what they have to do to change this and supported to make the changes. If they can’t or win’t make the changes then they run the risk of other children being removed. They will be aware of the drug/alcohol supports available or MH services, or DV services. They are adults and have choices to make. If they continue to make the wrong choices then their children will be removed.

I supported a young woman (i am a SW) who had had 3 children removed by the time she was 23. She was pregnant with her fourth when i became involved. I poured a lot of time and effort into this woman as well as putting services in place. She chose to put her child at risk and he was removed. She did not manage to make any significant changes and the child was placed in care and eventually adopted by the people who adopted her third child.

Sometimes all the help in the world will not make people better parents. Sadly.

Inyournightdress Fri 17-Jun-16 13:30:38

There's a programme currently being run in Salford called strengthening families which works with mothers whose had a removal and are pregnant again.

It's very effective.

EveryoneElsie Fri 17-Jun-16 13:30:42

If fascism is the answer it must have been a fucking stupid question.

LineyReborn Fri 17-Jun-16 13:31:59

I'm no longer engaging with posters called user+numbers.

Worra, that's such a key point, about the dearth of treatment available for mental health issues.

Mycatsabastard Fri 17-Jun-16 13:32:14

As far as I'm aware, SS don't take children away unless they have no other option. They work with families and parents to find a way that the children can remain. Unless the child is in danger or at risk of very serious neglect then the best place for them is with the parents.

If a child or children are removed then that means that all the work SS have done has been in vain. So I'm not sure what else they are supposed to do?

SS are severely overstretched and quite frankly if your child is removed then it's because you haven't done whats required to keep them with you. (Not you Op, just a general 'you')

Some parents choose drugs, alcohol or violent partners over their children. There's fuck all SS can do about that. When I hear about a woman who had 17 kids removed in 20 years I do think there's a case for enforced sterilising. Poor kids.

fuckincuntbuggerinarse Fri 17-Jun-16 13:32:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BombadierFritz Fri 17-Jun-16 13:33:54

You say 'ime'. What experiences have led you to that? I have to say its not been what i have seen, which is more what other posters describe, adults making poor choices repeatedly and despite help being available

user1466165815 Fri 17-Jun-16 13:34:18

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ApocalypseSlough Fri 17-Jun-16 13:34:39

Ignoring the eugenics loons
There's very practical project addressing this very problem.
Pause Project

MaisieDotes Fri 17-Jun-16 13:34:41

This whole user etc is a real boon for GFs isn't it?

FedupofbeingtoldIcantusemyname Fri 17-Jun-16 13:35:49

Just to clear up any suspicion that I am a journo - I'm definitely not! I've posted about this subject before, it is close to my heart as my Dsis has had experiences with SS. Fwiw she has chosen sterilisation for herself because she doesn't want to go through the trauma of losing any more children and she feels that is the best decision for her current children but many many parents are not able to make that choice for various reasons.

Nightdress that is great to hear, hopefully there will be more programs like this. It would be even better if parents could be supported before they get pregnant again but this is a great start.

With all due respect bluesky, that was not Dsis' experience. I'm sure you are a good SW and offer appropriate support to parents but SW are not all equal. Dsis was offered no support at all for her MH issues or after being sexually assaulted. In fact she even specifically requested support but they refused to help her with childcare so she couldn't attend appointments.

fuckincuntbuggerinarse Fri 17-Jun-16 13:36:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Owlkiss Fri 17-Jun-16 13:37:39

I heard something on R4 - possibly it was on woman's hour last year about some pioneering project to give women support after having children removed. I think they were only eligible if they had had multiple children removed.

I can't remember the details, but there were women interviewed saying it had changed their lives, and I think some of them had gone on to be able to have their own families subsequently.
I may be misremembering, but I think it was a quite small-scale project, possibly in London. I don't know it it is still running now. I seem to recall one of the women interviewed had started out needing support and had become one of the supporters, and she was very passionate about it, and talked very movingly. It was definitely worth listening to. I don't know if it would still be available.

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