To wish we could get some decent advice on whether to vote to Brexit or Bremain

(240 Posts)
lougle Wed 15-Jun-16 17:12:03

I am an intelligent woman. I am well educated. I can't for the life of me work out what is truth and what is fiction. I have no idea what is right for this country.

I don't want to spoil my vote. I want to vote, and vote with conviction. But I don't have the first clue which way to vote. I'm a nurse and I love my NHS, if that makes a difference to how I should vote.

EveryoneElsie Wed 15-Jun-16 17:15:16

YANBU. I'm so sick of every request/discussion like this turning into a bun fight. I've had the pro and anti leaflets through the door and they weren't any help either.
I get that the EU costs us £350 million a year, but specifically what do we get out of it?

We're not like Switzerland.
We seem more like Norway. They pay millions to stay in, they have to abide by a lot of EU rulings and they don't get a say in making the legislation they have to follow.
Mainly for that reason I'm voting stay.

allthatnonsense Wed 15-Jun-16 17:17:02

The women's equality party has posted lots of resources on this.

Ellypoo Wed 15-Jun-16 17:19:15

Exactly what the above poster said about being more like Norway.

The scaremongering about immigration is just bollocks.

I agree the EU needs reform, but we can't have any involvement with that unless we remain.

Brexit would be disastrous for the economy in the short & medium term and therefore jobs, NHS, construction, education, taxes - absolutely everything in that respect.

IamtheDevilsAvocado Wed 15-Jun-16 17:21:06

Brexit would be disastrous, on all levels... Especially for our public services...

Brexiters... Farage & Boris.... Says it all really....

arethereanyleftatall Wed 15-Jun-16 17:21:07

The major problem is NOBODY knows what will happen if we leave. They cannot possibly. So, there's no one to advise anyone.
All any side can do is scaremonger.
The current branding of anyone wanting to vote leave as either 'thick, racist or uneducated' is in very poor form I think.

lljkk Wed 15-Jun-16 17:21:21

Sorry I think the NHS is shafted either way, so I wouldn't try to vote on basis of that.

Which thing have you heard that otherwise seems most important to you, OP?

Most of what we hear is educated guesses. There aren't a lot of facts to inform us.

VestalVirgin Wed 15-Jun-16 17:25:22

You don't get to leave and still profit from the markets, etc. Those who are in favour of Brexit seem to forget that. They may just want to get out because of immigration, but they don't get to limit the consequences of leaving to just immigration.

From a German point of view, it seems that all the educated people vote to remain, while the uneducated masses are for a Brexit.
That's what the more reasonable newspapers write. (Of course in a more polite wording.)

TJEckleburg Wed 15-Jun-16 17:25:34

As. A nurse you should maybe take notice of the fact that the BMJ, RCM and unison have all come out in support of remain and said it will be better for the NhS.
And know that the leave campaign are not the government, so cannot actually carry out their pledge to give £100m a week to the NhS. And even if they could, it is a drop in the ocean compared to the £2bn+ that is spent on the NhS per week. And that figure is dependant on the economy, and everyone, even brexiteers, expect that the economy will suffer if we leave, which will mean more cuts in spending everywhere. Just in the last 3 days £67bn has been wiped off the stock market on fears that we will leave- that would have covered over 8 years of our contribution to the EU

Audeca Wed 15-Jun-16 17:27:19

@EveryoneElsie

"I get that the EU costs us £350 million..."

This has been thoroughly debunked with the UK Statistics Authority calling it misleading and the Institute for Fiscal Studies describing the figure as absurd.

You can read more here and here.

JustDanceAddict Wed 15-Jun-16 17:27:48

Stay in if you don't want economic disaster.,

WalkingToMordor Wed 15-Jun-16 17:30:50

Can't link on phone but if you Google "LSE Brexit Nick Barr" you will find a good summary of the arguments by a professor at the LSE.

MardyBra Wed 15-Jun-16 17:31:08

Copied and pasted from something I saw on FB earlier if this helps OP:

A good friend of mine came up with a great idea. If you don't have the time/inclination to find out all the facts about the EU referendum (I don't blame you) and are possibly unsure which way to vote, perhaps knowing how other notable people are thinking could help out.

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• Boris Johnson, who probably doesn’t really care either way, but knows he’ll become Prime Minister if the country votes to leave
• A former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions who carried out a brutal regime of cuts to benefits and essential support for the poorest in society as well as the disabled and sick
• That idiot that was Education Secretary and every single teacher in the country hated with a furious passion for the damage he was doing to the education system
• Leader of UKIP
• BNP
• Britain First
• Donald Trump
• Keith Chegwin
• David Icke

So, as I said, if you can’t be bothered to look into the real facts and implications of all this in/out stuff, just pick the list that you most trust and vote that way. It really couldn’t be more simple.

And if you are unsure about leaving, don't.

Please repost this list, if you think it might help.

oneofthegiantsisme Wed 15-Jun-16 17:32:01

Try Full Fact or BBC Reality Check for some sort of unbiased analysis of the claims.

juneau Wed 15-Jun-16 17:33:43

Someone posted this questionnaire the other day, which is designed to help you decide how to vote. Its pretty good - it includes all the major issues and asks you to rate how important those things are to you. Then at the end it comes up with whether you're more in or out leaning:

www.crowdpac.co.uk/eu-referendum-in-or-out

arethereanyleftatall Wed 15-Jun-16 17:35:43

Mardybra - so lots of rich people want to stay in? Quel surprise.
That list does more harm than good for remaining in.

ghostyslovesheep Wed 15-Jun-16 17:35:47

try not to let immigration arguments derail you - 70% of immigrants in the UK are from outside the EU - leaving wont change this

30% are EU migrants - they work and statistically pay more than they take so make us money

Norway is not in the EU but it's trade agreements means it has free movement for EU citizens so leaving wont change things really

Now look at the other arguments and go from there grin

whois Wed 15-Jun-16 17:36:19

Great post Mardy

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeG0es Wed 15-Jun-16 17:43:12

I'm voting Remain. I have seen that list posted over and over here and on FB and think it plays right into the hands of Brexit by trying to trivialise their side, sorry, I just wish people would stop posting it.

The Nick Barr article mentioned above is good, there are lots of other blog posts on their page too. Off to look at the WEP now.

MardyBra Wed 15-Jun-16 17:44:15

"Mardybra - so lots of rich people want to stay in? Quel surprise.
That list does more harm than good for remaining in."

I took that list as more lots of informed people want to stay in.

It's pretty evident from the way that the stock market has reacted to recent opinion polls that Brexit will be an economic disaster - which will affect the rich and not so rich alike.

scaryteacher Wed 15-Jun-16 17:46:35

Mardy I am supposed to be influenced by what Gerry Adams says? Seriously?

Mervyn King says we will be fine outside the EU, strange you didn't list the last Governor of the BofE.

MardyBra Wed 15-Jun-16 17:46:43

Sorry WhoKnows. I saw it for the first time today.

Tummyrumbled Wed 15-Jun-16 17:47:17

11% of doctors in the UK are from the EU (those dishy Italian surgeons ;)

theconversation.com/the-truth-about-migrants-and-the-nhs-60908

Try the Crowdpac quiz linked above

scaryteacher Wed 15-Jun-16 17:47:46

Juneau It says I am only 92% Brexit - I could have sworn I was 100%.

irretating Wed 15-Jun-16 17:48:12

The billionaire Rupert Murdoch wants out coz the EU don't listen to him but the UK government does. There are very very wealthy people on either side, arethereanyleftatall

Out has a deficit of credible people supporting it and they make up for that fact by repeating lies often and loudly. The worst you can accuse Remain of is that they pick the worst case scenario.

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