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AIBU to think the referendum is a farce...

(316 Posts)
Homeriliad Tue 07-Jun-16 13:22:09

... and not to vote?

I support remain but I've always been opposed to an EU referendum due to the complex economic arguments involved. But even I didn't expect it turn into a Tory leadership campaign with lies being flung on both sides.

I'm angry that the Tory party (Boris) are using the British economy as a pawn in their power games; I'm fed up with the terrible quality of debate and lack of access to facts.

NeedACleverNN Tue 07-Jun-16 13:23:26

Meh I honestly think no matter what the real vote is, whatever suits the government best will be announced

Homeriliad Tue 07-Jun-16 13:24:01

Should add that I support remain based on gut instinct rather than any advanced macroeconomic knowledge. Not a good reason to vote on such an important issue.

honeysucklejasmine Tue 07-Jun-16 13:24:24

YABVU to not vote.

AutumnMadness Tue 07-Jun-16 13:25:09

Hell, I understand you being annoyed, but not voting equal letting the Leave side have your vote! Please vote.

P.S. I am also supremely annoyed that Cameron got us into this mess. But I will not be voting for him, but for my future.

Homeriliad Tue 07-Jun-16 13:27:08

Honey why? Why should I vote when I'm not knowledgeable on the complex economic arguments? Why should I condone the Tory power games?

Sandsnake Tue 07-Jun-16 13:28:28

YANBU. IMO the Tories have put the good of the country behind making a populist, vote winning election policy.

But as others have said - please vote!

AutumnMadness Tue 07-Jun-16 13:29:25

Jaisus, is any voting based on "sound macroeconomic knowledge"? Since when did the exercise of democracy depended on every voter having a PhD in economics?

There are lots of other foundations for making a voting decision besides gut instinct and sound macroeconomic reasons. Like sense of justice, feeling of belonging, vision of who we want to be in the future, impact of the decision on specific areas of your life (as opposed to economy as a whole).

SweetieDrops Tue 07-Jun-16 13:30:09

This referendum is the first time I'm considering not voting too, I've always voted but I'm confused about the in/out arguments, I've yet to hear a really convincing one for either side. I agree with Need too, they'll do what they want in the end anyway.

LittleLionMansMummy Tue 07-Jun-16 13:30:15

I'm opposed to it on the basis that:

1. Mn is a pretty 'informed' group of people, but this subject is so complex the public are being asked to vote about something they are simply not well enough informed about.

2. We elect our government democratically to make tough decisions on our behalf. We cannot keep deferring to referendum every time the decision making gets particularly tough.

That said, I'll vote because I believe the Brexiters are more motivated to vote/ more passionate. Therefore I'll vote to remain because I believe it will be dangerous not to.

RhiWrites Tue 07-Jun-16 13:31:58

Trust me, a lot of people in the leave camp don't have macroeconomic expertise either. Please vote.

noblegiraffe Tue 07-Jun-16 13:35:18

I used to not vote at all because I thought I wasn't informed enough or understood politics enough to vote properly.

Then I realised that a lot of people who do vote are complete idiots, or horrible bigots who vote for stupid reasons, or racist reasons or whatever.

So I vote. My vote might not be the most informed, but I'm pretty clever and not bigoted so I reason that my vote is needed to counter the total asshats.

namechangingagainagain Tue 07-Jun-16 13:35:42

I'm not even sure why we are wasting such a lot of time money and political energy on a referendum.
I will be voting remain as I think its best for the future of the country.

Round these parts there are a lot of brexit people who are voting because they don't like hardworking polish people "stealing their jobs". Lots in the local press and facebook about forriners raping "our women" and so on. So even though I don't really think I fully understand the issues and consequences for every person trying to unpick things there seems to be 10 people who are vociferously bringing up the drawbridge.

So I will be definitely voting.

Cameron and Boris are both slippery buggers who have their own self interest at heart.

namechangingagainagain Tue 07-Jun-16 13:36:54

noblegiraffe said it better than me

Binders1 Tue 07-Jun-16 13:39:12

I agree this is far too complex a subject to be put to a referendum. Many people don't understand, many misunderstand it. The government was always warned that it needed to educate people properly, in order to carry it out fairly and successfully.

The politicians clearly don't even understand it. Debate is one thing but they have 'lied' and contradicted each other left, right and centre. It is a complete and utter farce. I will be voting but understand those who won't because they don't feel fully informed enough to make a decision.

LittleLionMansMummy Tue 07-Jun-16 13:40:23

We have a fair few of those where we live too namechanging

t4gnut Tue 07-Jun-16 13:41:10

Referendum should never have happened.

But do vote, otherwise its down to the lies and disinformation of the Leave campaign dragging out the Neanderthals and closet racists.

TortoiseSmile Tue 07-Jun-16 13:42:09

For me, voting Remain means there will be no "country" to speak of. In terms of any semblence of self-determination which is the usual measure for this. We will be ruled from Brussels via Merkel (or vice versa). This trumps any "economic" argument for me, all of which are entirely nebulous e.g. whats the point in having a job if you have nowhere to live, for example because demand so outstrips supply?

That said, I do think it shows that the whole of the British establishment is in complete disarray.

NewLife4Me Tue 07-Jun-16 13:42:30

I agree with Need and also think the decision has already been made.
I don't think we really have a say in anything, but people are prepared to go through the motions.

Just5minswithDacre Tue 07-Jun-16 13:42:42

Meh I honestly think no matter what the real vote is, whatever suits the government best will be announced

Really seriously 'honestly'?

NotmeItWasNotme Tue 07-Jun-16 13:44:45

Please vote, especially if your gut tells you to stay in the EU. This is because those who want change are more motivated to vote than those who don't. That is very simply put. However, there is a very good chance that the UK will leave the EU because the emotive issues around immigration are motivating people who don't always vote. And, those who have been following this very strange leadership election for months and are tired of it may just let that happen purely due to boredom and apathy.

MustStopAndThinkBeforePosting Tue 07-Jun-16 13:46:21

You are right that it's a farce and is happening mainly because of tory internal politics and that the decision should not be being made by a general public who are insufficiently well-informed to make the decision and who are being lied to.

David Cameron has decided to gamble with the economic prosperity of the nation because promising a referendum was the only way he could consolidate power before the last general election. Essentially he bought himself a few more years of power at a cost that will, if the referendum goes with the Leave vote due to said ill-informed voters, cost us all very dearly.

Yabu to therefore not vote. The referendum result will affect all our futures for generations. If you don't feel well-informed enough then read the information that is out there written by people whose qualifications you respect and whose motivations you can trust, and get yourself better informed.

If you don't have time for that then don't have any qualms about voting remain based on gut instinct rather than any advanced macroeconomic knowledge. There will be plenty of people voting Leave based on gut instinct whow don't have any deep understanding of the facts. Your voice is as important as theirs.

Destinysdaughter Tue 07-Jun-16 13:46:46

Haven't the Brexiters already won, according to the polls? A victory for ignorance and bigotry.

NeedACleverNN Tue 07-Jun-16 13:47:11

Yes. I honestly think that. Doesn't mean I won't vote but I do think it's rigged

blimeyalldecentnamesaregone Tue 07-Jun-16 13:47:28

OP - please vote. The danger is that leave supporters will be more inclined to vote meaning that the result may not be a true reflection of what people want.

Remain supporters really need to vote as well as leave supporters. I am in the remain camp but still think it is important that everyone has their say so the result is accurate.

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