Scrapping Tuition Fees

[fifi69]

AIBU to not understand why young people are not up in arms about tuition fees? I think young people have been screwed over by the government with regard to tuition fees, maintenance grant for poorer students and the compound interest that will be accrued on these loans. And yet I haven't seen many student demonstrations. I'm baffled as to why young people seem resigned to their fate. I'm not saying I was a firebrand when I was young, but I went on the Poll Tax riot and at least that worked!

[katemiddletonsnudeheels]

Because if young people were to fight for tuition fees to be revoked, and this subsequently happened (unlikely) far fewer young people would go to university.

[CalleighDoodle]

There have been many demonstrations over the years since tuition fees were introduced. Not seeing it on the news doesnt mean protests didnt happen. We have a tightly controlled press when it comes to demonstrations.

[fifi69]

Why would fewer people go to university? Are you saying that the government wouldn't fund the courses?

[GraysAnalogy]

There have been lots of protests across the country each month but haven't been televised. anticuts.com/, www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/student-tuition-fees-set-to-rise-as-government-unveils-university-teaching-reforms-a7030671.html

the student nurses have been very proactive too about the bursary cuts.

But to be honest I'm sure they feel like I do, what's the bloody point? We don't get listened to.

See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_Kingdom_student_protests: ignored.

Nurse bursary protests: ignored.

[fifi69]

I think if it was a big enough demonstration, we would all hear about it. Surely they need a national strategy? Is it that a lot of kids are apathetic, apolitical, even when it affects them?

[fifi69]

Thanks for the information Grays, but if you are a student, then you may have just answered my question - "what's the bloody point"?

[GraysAnalogy]

I'm not a student but was and was involved in protesting, still am.

I think it's unfair to call them apathetic and apolitical, very unfair.

Despite my 'whats the point' people do still protest, people do try to make a difference. You mentioned a national strategy, I've just linked you to the National Campaign.

[meditrina]

Labour introduced them, Coalition hiked them, Tories kept them and will probably raise them (but less than their predecessors).

There simply isn't a mainstream party that is anti-fees, and none of them look persuadable at the moment.

[WreckingBallsInsideMyHead]

Because they're too busy working two jobs in between studying?

I remember protests about fees when I was a teenager (early thirties now). 18 year olds now go through their whole education expecting to have to pay.

The governments (labour, coalition and Tory) snuck them in and gradually increased them.

[lavenderdoilly]

I come from student grant era not tuition fees. It was easier (relatively speaking)for a child from a poor background who had sufficient academic ability to go to uni. We also got housing benefit and could claim unemployment benefit in summer (it was the 80s). I dread the notion of my dd being saddled with debt having gone to a second or third rate uni (or even a first rate one). I was the first generation to go to uni and parents were very proud of us for it. Right now (dd only 9), I don't see it as a be all and end all for aspiration and if she wanted to take a different path, I wouldn't object. As long as there was a path.

[branofthemist]

There were tons of protests when they were introduced. Lots of people did.

They aren't going to scrap them, massive protests are pointless. 2 different governments (3 if include lib dens) have kept them. They are here to stay.

[LurkingHusband]

I sat in, in the 1980s when Keith Joseph had the idea of tuition fees. And marched - the only time I have.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Joseph#Secretary_of_State_for_Education_and_Science

Had fuck all effect.

Personally, I think it is a mark - if not a requirement - of a developed society that all citizens have the opportunity to pursue learning to the limits of their abilities and that it's incumbent on the state to do it's best to support that aspiration.

Part of the problem, is in a society populated by an increasing number of people who have had to pay for their education, it's becoming harder to sell the idea of no tuition fees. ("If I had to pay it, then they bloody well can").

Divide and conquer. Nothing new there .

[IceMaiden73]

If there were no tuition fees who would pay?

The NHS and other government funded services are already in crisis - we cannot afford to pay for this too

[esornep]

Why would fewer people go to university? Are you saying that the government wouldn't fund the courses?

Replacing tuition fees by government funding and (even partially) reinstating grants would cost around 20 billion pounds per year. This represents either a significant increase in the deficit (which the government wants to cut) or a significant increase in taxation.

Zero tuition fees were possible in the days of 10% going to university; this is not affordable in an era of 50% going to university without significant tax rises. We as a country have voted for the students currently going to university to pay extra tax after they graduate, instead of us all paying extra tax up front.

[LurkingHusband]

Is education an investment, or a commodity ?

[fifi69]

I don't agree they are here to stay - if students can get militant about it - this could be overturned - I suppose it needs more of the general population to get behind sorting it.
I agree lavender, that it is not the be all and end of, but it is inevitably going to hit the bright kids from poorer backgrounds far more and potentially create an elitist system again.
In my last year of uni - they introduced loans for maintenance and I think at the end I may have owed around $3000 in loans, a little different from average $40 - $50,000 now.

[AndNowItsSeven]

I don't really see the problem with fees,they are just a graduate tax. Most people will never pay then off anyway and they do they are very high earners.

[emmaluvseeyore]

I'm currently a student (postgraduate, did my undergraduate when fees were £3k). This might sound like a stupid question, but if we don't have tuition fees, who pays for it? Personally, I don't see my student debt as a traditional debt. It's more of a graduate tax that I pay when I'm earning over £21k but gets wiped off 30 years after I graduate. I couldn't even tell you how much I owe!

[ToxicBits]

by having so many graduates it's devalued the undergraduate degree, as can be seen in the job market. Many entry level jobs now require a degree when previously GCSE level education would have been sufficient.

[19lottie82]

So if they were scrapped, where would the money come from?

[ToxicBits]

I think universities need to be less greedy, £9k a year for an ex poly that's actually not got a good teaching reputation? It's £5k a year for the OU!

[GraysAnalogy]

There's no way on gods green earth they will be overturned.

How exactly are students going to be militant? They can't strike, they can't refuse to go to uni, all they have is standing in London somewhere with a few signs. It does ball all as we have already sadly found.

And kids from poorer backgrounds can get full student loans anyway, it's what I did. I didn't have a penny to my name neither did my parents. I don't think fees should be increased and the abolishment of grants is scandalous, but it is doable.

[meditrina]

"So if they were scrapped, where would the money come from?"

It was your LEA wasn't it?

Not sure whether change meant clawback, or if removal of obligation mention reduction in funding (not sure if it was meant to be centrally or rates funded)

[fifi69]

Ersonep - a tax on graduates actual salary would be better than accruing massive debt and compound interest surely. I am no economist, but I think that seems a fairer way to deal with this situation. Who's to say that half of these universities are worth paying that amount of tuition fees? And also if it comes to cutting the courses to those which are mostly academic, or worthwhile degrees then that will stop kids wasting their money on useless degrees.

[lavenderdoilly]

I'm happy to be proved wrong but I fall into the trap of thinking we have too many universities (many charging too much for too little ) and we have too many uni students. What we need are high quality non - uni training courses paid for through a combo of general taxation, industry investment and a properly scaled student payment.