To have told DM not to contact me again until DSis has moved out?(47 Posts)
To cut a long story short, DSis has form for staying at mum's and paying no board and is back again now paying the bear minimum while mum works as much as she can (minimum wage) to be able to pay the rent and bills while DSis is out every weekend, buying clothes, new tattoos and piercings etc.
Whenever mum has told sis to move out or asks about money, sis tells her that she feels suicidal and so mum backs off and instead comes to me or other family for loans which she has to then pay back.
Sis and I are very different. She does not mind using mum so that she can have spare cash for herself and laughed at me when I suggested that she pay mum more a few months ago and her stance is that so long as mum can still buy wine, she doesn't need any additional money from her (at the time she was just paying the additional council tax and has since agreed to pay £25 per week).
DSis and I currently are not talking as she accused DS of stealing something that was missing from her room. Her argument was that when he comes to their house, the first thing he does it go up to her room - but that's to see her because she lets him play on her phone. She continued with the blame and so I left. There was absolutely no reason to blame DS other than to piss me off and well, job done there.
Fast forward a few weeks and DS makes an easter card and lists all of his family inside, mum takes it to her house as that's where everyone goes, but he's missed off DSis. It's obvious what he's done, he's gotten carried away listing my DBro and cousin with their partner and children and just forgotten about sis. Just engrossed and being carried away. DSis, mum tells me within DS's earshot, was distraught at this, oh she was so upset. Explained that it seems obvious that he's just got carried away etc. Next time we visit mum's house, DS took down the card and wrote sis's name and another cousin that he couldn't remember her name (baby).
Yesterday, mum came round and was again going on about how upset sis is about this card with DS obviously listening upstairs (oh the silence). I don't really give a fuck about sis's feelings over this, I've explained why it happened, thought mum would have passed it on and care about my DS's feelings being hurt thinking he's upset his aunty who he loves by forgetting to write her name in a card when he was on a trip to a zoo - and told mum this.
I'm so sick of all of the drama, all of the begging for money, seeing her have no money and seeing sis in new clothes, hearing about her new tattoos, her new piercings, the nights out with friends drinking prosecco.
Went to mum's house, retrieved the card (because it's a lovely card) and gave mum her key back telling her not to contact me again until sis has moved out.
Mum and I always have had a difficult relationship, she has said before that she tells me things just to get a reaction out of me and I've often found things that she's told me not to be true. I think that I've seen it on here being called Gaslighting when you're told lies to deflect from the truth. I'm just so sick of being used to get a reaction and to enable the situation with sis by lending/giving mum money and giving her advice and energy.
Please tell me I'm doing the right thing
You are doing the right thing. It all sounds very claustrophobic and unpleasant. Are you fully prepared to stand your ground though?
Sounds like you should be kicking your Dsis to me?
Seeyounearertime - She doesn't give a flying fuck what I say or think.
Not sure why you want to punish your mum because you don't get along with your sister. Have you actually asked your DS if you took something from your sisters room?
If your mum is choosing to financially support your sister that's her shout.
Taking the card was very petty.
We think she sold it. Not sure what DS would want with a Pandora ring.
I see where you're coming from with the comment about punishing my mum. I can't carry on enabling the situation though and I cannot carry her depression along with my own stuff which is how this usually goes. For myself and DS, I can't let that happen again especially as she usually later admits that "it wasn't how it was" anyway.
Do you have the option of still maintaining a relationship with your mum but on your ground? Say, she comes to yours for a coffee or dinner once a week?
Your sister sounds like a total shit by the way. Being non contact with someone like that isn't the worst thing in the world. I feel a bit sorry for your mum though, as she's obviously being bled dry by your sister, but she's also caught up in the middle between you both.
For what it's worth, I've been nc with my sister for 4 years, apart for dropping the kids off at hers for an hour at Christmas. I know our dad isn't happy about it, but he should know more than most that sometimes siblings just don't get on, and I just won't talk about her to him and will actively deflect any conversation about her because I'm done fighting my corner.
I thought that we could but it's been so strained with her coming to my house and trying not to moan or complain about money, it's kinda all she does. That's why I've said to get in touch again when my sis moves out.
Mum says that she can't just kick her out and she is scared that she'll either kill herself on purpose or inadvertently by taking drugs (had near death experience last year when she was so high, mum phoned an ambulance and doc said that if she'd not, she would have died and that if she does it again, that she could die then as her heart cannot cope). I'm not sure if sis is still doing drugs but I know that's a worry - although her being at mum's house doesn't seem to have deterred her from taking drugs, only giving her more spare cash to afford them.
I have just had the same conversation with my mum. Dbro,Sil and their kids are staying there.
They are doing nothing to help out and mum and dad are on their knees. I don't speak to dbro or Sil due to their past behaviour.
I can only contact mum or see her if they go out. Mum and dad enable their behaviour and dare not saying anything about the things they have done to me and my kids. Because dbro will fall out with them. In reality he won't, as he depends too much on them. But he is vindictive enough that they believe it's a possibility.
So I have told mum I want nothing more to do with it. And to be in touch when they move out.
I can see where you're coming from, and I think you are doing absolutely the right thing refusing to get dragged into the drama as it is obviously affecting both you and your DS. It's not a drama of your making, so best to keep well away from it, and from your DSis.
However, I can also see that your poor DM, whilst enabling your DSis behaviour, is caught in the middle. She probably can't see the extent she is being used and manipulated by DSis.
Could you somehow manage to carry on a relationship with your DM, as others have said, on neutral ground but be absolutely up-front with her that you don't want to hear any more of the drama about DSis, and you are not prepared to carry on lending money to your DM so that she can in turn financially support DSis? Meet for a coffee or something somewhere - she sounds like she could do with your support.
You're doing the right thing. You and your family should not be dragged into this mess.
I think you should explain to your DM that you will be there to help her if ever she decides to end the situation, but that things cannot continue as they are because it's hurting you and your family and you won't put up with it any longer. That way you can leave a door open in the future, while forcing your DM to see the seriousness of the situation.
And you should be ready to stick to your guns, because you should be aware that your DM and DSis will start kicking up a fuss. Do you have a partner who can support you in this?
Rather - I think for me, the thing about the card, when I had specifically told her previously not to talk about it in front of DS as I do not want his feelings hurt - that she would go on and on about it and put sis's feelings above my little boy's when we had, as far as I was concerned, resolved the issue. It's the realisation that no matter what I say or do, and no matter how badly she is treated by sis, that it's sis that will always come up smelling of roses. She's never resentful of the weeks and months of financial abuse that sis puts her through, and the amount of support I give her, it's the lift to do some shopping or the film they watch together that mum clings to and oh what a thoughtful daughter she is, and what a good time they have together.
So maybe that's it really, the realisation that I'll never be as good as mum's darling baby that she's so scared of losing.
My initial thoughts were that you should probably support your mum UNTIL I read the part about her treatment of you. If your mum enjoys winding you up to get a rise out of you then, meh, leave her to it. You did not create the dysfunctional relationships going on here and you are not responsible for solving them.
Stick to your guns and tell her that you can't collude in supporting your sister's outrageous behaviour. Your sister sounds extremely manipulative. If she is taking drugs to the extreme of near death experiences then my money is on her selling the Pandora ring to support her using. It is very sad that she is now dragging your poor ds into the circle of dysfunction, as is your mother by parping on about the bloody card. Based on what you say she is doing that to piss you off and doesn't seem to care that she is hurting your ds by extension.
On that basis YANBU to withdraw from her. Look after yourself and your ds.
Curren - So sad to see you're going through something similar, thank you for sharing
It sounds like your sister is in a bad place and I can understand why your mother is reluctant to ask her for more in terms of money to help with living costs. I've also been in your sister's position of having to move back in with my mum, but we always had a decent relationship to give each other space but pick up where the other one needed us to, and I always paid my way.
My mother died in 2008 and towards the end I was the black sheep of the family for moving back with H, whereas my sister was the golden girl who was getting married and could do no wrong. I eventually did the same with my mum that I now do with my dad in that I said I'm just not discussing my sister, which was harder at that time because I still lived with mum.
If your mum wants to support your sister then that's her lookout. You would do the same for your son. If you want a relationship with your mum you have to be strong and lay your boundaries and say you will not discuss your sister and you cannot afford to lend her any money, regardless of the reason. Let her ask her other daughter for a loan. You have to be clear in your head what you want out of your relationship with your mum, and you have to stick to your guns.
Let's say, for example, she comes round to yours for a coffee and she starts talking about how she's skint and could you lend het some money, you need your response planned in your head and you need to stick to it. If she starts talking about what your sister has been up to that week, just say 'that's nice' and move the conversation onto something else. If she goes back to the same subject, do it again, and again and again, and eventually you might find the references to the things you don't want to talk about become less and less until you're in a position to say 'how was your day mum?' and there's no reference at all to your sister.
Your sister needs help, and your mum sounds like her enabler, but that's what you do when you love someone like a mother loves a child. Be firm but kind with your mum, it sounds like she's having a bit of a rough ride at the minute.
Distance - No, it's just us two, but I do have a good friend who's been through a lot of my mum drama over the years who's very supportive. I have tried NC before and we did have a good relationship afterwards for a while but with sis living with her, mum doesn't like it when I keep saying the same things like a broken record (she's taking you for a mug, she's never say thank you for being a doormat, 2 mins of being fun doesn't make up for the financial abuse, all your wages go on rent and bills with a small percentage going on luxuries (like deodorant!) while she gives £25 and has all of the rest to spend on herself (and still uses mum's deodorant) etc) - she ends up with cat's bum face and soon after leaves - which is shit for both of us.
Not sure I quite agree with the other posters.
I think you all seem a bit prone to drama. Going in and getting the card and saying no more contact until you throw my sister out is quite manipulative in itself- yes, your mum may be making herself in debt and have a hard time with your sister there, but that his her house, her life and her mistake to make. Our parents aren't perfect, and sometimes they do things we don't think are great or we would handle differently- my mum has indulged my sibling at times, I don't agree with it but it wouldn't make me cut her off, if anything I feel sorry for her that she feels so guilty and has such a hard time dealing with it.
Your remark about her always coming up smelling of roses hints at deep resentment and jealousy. I very much doubt your mum is delighted with her difficult drug using daughter and honestly prefers her, she is just trying her best to parent her as a difficult adult and may be getting it wrong.
I think setting boundaries like not seeing your sister if you don't want, and asking your mum not to talk about her money issues/sister problems is fine. But asking her to choose between her children? Could you do that as a mum yourself? Would you throw out your son if he was behaving badly and another of your children didn't like him?
I don't think you should keep saying your broken record stuff at all- you seem determined to get your mum to admit your sister is financially abusive and to choose you. Even if this is the case, it is your mum's life and for her to realise and constantly reiterating she's a 'mug' and a 'doormat' is a really judgy and unpleasant thing to say to her. This is a power struggle between two sisters and no-one is going to win.
Can't you see you are asking her to put down, condemn and throw out her own child? Even if that child is flawed and a pain in the backside, most mums won't want to do that!
HP - I do get where you're coming from and I do agree that I do seem to be prone to drama. Most of the drama is caused because mum and sis say/do things knowing that I'll react. They both manipulate me and I cannot carry on doing it anymore.
It may be better if you avoid your Mums house and ask her not to mention your sister in yours.
Your little fella will probably realise something's wrong with Nannie now too and blame himself otherwise.
Your sister needs to grow up and get a life instead of freeloading.
I have a pain in the backside sibling, a drain on DM financially & emotionally. What I have learned over the years is not to bad mouth him to DM. She defends him because he his her son & she loves him even though I can't tolerate him. Anything she tells me about him is met with complete silence or "that's nice".
Leave them to their dysfunctional dynamic but do not let her use you as her sounding board. She shouldn't be moaning about your DSis to you anyway. My DM has done this for many years & now wonders why we are NC.
It's not just the comments about the card in front of DS though, it's also the not being able to afford the dentist and so she'll probably have to have all of her teeth pulled out or the not having any money and DS offering her the coppers out of his money box, the having no money for rent and so will lose her house and have to live in a cardboard box.
Some time away from mum will be good for him while she's this stressed and this prone to saying such terrible things in front of him.
They both manipulate me
But you react!! You need to work out what they're doing or saying that provokes that reaction in you and learn some coping strategies for when it happens.
Boogers - but how can I tell the difference between what's true and what isn't?
React with a gut instinct. Can you afford to lend your mum money? Do you have the emotional strength to deal with what your says to you?
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