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to think that T shouldn't be linked with LGB?

(194 Posts)
lulucappuccino Wed 13-Apr-16 09:00:59

Why is transsexual, which I thought was all about gender, always mentioned along with lesbian, gay and bisexual, obviously types of sexuality?

You wouldn't say blonde, brunette, grey and men; or short, tall, medium and women.

AIBU to think these are separate things, or am I a dimwit? smile

BooAvenue Wed 13-Apr-16 09:02:51

YANBU - I think the same

BearGryllsHasaBigRope Wed 13-Apr-16 09:04:29

If you're a dimwit then so am I, because I agree with you.

foragogo Wed 13-Apr-16 09:05:53

I've always thought this too but soon the trans activists will be here telling us we're wrong.

BombadierFritz Wed 13-Apr-16 09:07:30

Agree but its up to the membership to decide. Of course it will end up run by the transwomen lobby who are often also gay ie previous men who are attracted to women. Not at all the same as the way the rest of the world is run by (rich white) hetero men obviously

DanaBarrett Wed 13-Apr-16 09:08:03

You're not wrong. In fact, I think that the logic of each contradicts the other. So only one can be 'right'.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers Wed 13-Apr-16 09:08:19

Well, sometimes people do separate them. Depends on the context IMO.

But there is a fairly straightforward link, in that sexuality is usually understood in relation to sex/gender (ie., it's the sexes/genders you're attracted to that defines your sexuality). So if someone grows up thinking of themselves as a straight man, then comes out as a trans woman, they might find that they also have to work out what it's like to identify as a woman who's attracted to women?

I know some people transition and remain oriented the same way (straight people remaining straight, or gay people remaining gay) even though they sex to whom they're attracted has actually shifted.

But I can imagine in both of those situations you'd have enough in common with LGB people you might well have things to talk about that were shared.

When it's a problem, is when people think being trans is a sexuality, which as you say, isn't terrible helpful.

acasualobserver Wed 13-Apr-16 09:13:32

OP, do you have a personal interest in this question i.e. are you L, B, G or T?

lulucappuccino Wed 13-Apr-16 09:16:14

Why do you ask, acasual?

ApocalypseSlough Wed 13-Apr-16 09:19:01

I agree. But I also think we might be 'on the wrong side of history' 😞

acasualobserver Wed 13-Apr-16 09:19:38

I'm interested to know whether you're minding your own business or other people's.

VashtaNerada Wed 13-Apr-16 09:19:50

Gender identity and sexual orientation are separate issues so many groups do separate them, but sometimes they're put together because they suffer from similar types of prejudice. You can be a bit damned if you do, damned if you don't - Stonewall were given a really hard time before they became trans-inclusive and then a hard time afterwards by others. I think it makes sense to link the groups in some instances and not in others.

VashtaNerada Wed 13-Apr-16 09:22:08

There are lots of trans activists who believe in the separation btw, as well as lots of LGB people who like a trans-inclusive approach. It's not a LGB vs T issue, just different ways of looking at how best to resolve the injustice that all those people can face.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers Wed 13-Apr-16 09:22:20

Isn't enquiring about the OP's sexuality rather like minding her business not your own?!

Doesn't it occur to you she might not be fully comfortable talking in personal terms - or might be asking because she is thinking about a family member or friend?

BombadierFritz Wed 13-Apr-16 09:22:59

Its an intrresting area robins .I read about an study a few months ago about this. Results: Straight women are mostly attracted to both men and women, lesbians mostly to the female body, gay men mostly to the male body and straight men mostly to the female body. Conclusion: straight women especially are influenced by cultural norms etc but lesbian women and men more by biology

BombadierFritz Wed 13-Apr-16 09:24:38

(These kind of studies are not always al that reliable, but i found it interesting)

MorrisZapp Wed 13-Apr-16 09:25:11

Totally agree. On face value, as a die hard liberal with gay friends etc I assumed that transgender rights were equally important and would evolve as gay rights have.

But mn has enlightened me and I now see that it is a completely different, unrelated topic. Meanwhile the diehard liberals on my FB feed are sharing memes about transgender rights. I don't get into it with them in case I cause offence.

bakeoffcake Wed 13-Apr-16 09:25:27

Yanbu. I feel the sameconfused

RufusTheReindeer Wed 13-Apr-16 09:28:55

Ooh quick question in this subject

Ds1 and i were talking about this and he said that there are so many different ways of idetifying ie gay, lesbian, asexual, bisexual that he thought maybe a better name would be

Gay +

I said that as far as i knew gay and lesbian were seen as being different and that it should include both at the very least...although i took his point regarding wanting to include everybody

Would i be right in thinking that

And yes i agree with the OP although i understand why it was added in the first place...well i think i do

VashtaNerada Wed 13-Apr-16 09:29:10

Trans rights are equally important Morris grin Presumably that's not what you meant though, just that the barriers are different and you feel should be tackled separately to LGB rights?

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers Wed 13-Apr-16 09:30:08

bomb - it is interesting ... but I admit, my heart sinks when I hear the finding about straight women, because I agree with you, it's so unreliable, and I do suspect anything that confirms exactly what heterosexual men want to believe (which this does). Everyone wants to think straight women's desires are just oh-so 'flexible'. And it's also playing into that good old stereotype that lesbians and gay men who ever have sex with someone of the opposite sex, must be less good, or more dishonest, than those who don't.

I feel as if I'm criticising unfairly - god knows, I've not seen the study you mention - but I am generally very suspicious of them, as you can tell!

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett Wed 13-Apr-16 09:31:24

I agree. I think the history is that the movement started as 'queer' so any person who wasn't simply straight came together -- after all, everyone was more or less fighting for the same thing, simple acceptance. As time has gone on, it's pretty clear to me that the T agenda is often in direct opposition to the L agenda, for example, and I wonder how long organisations like Stonewall can continue to hold things together.

RobinsAreTerritorialFuckers Wed 13-Apr-16 09:31:27

rufus - Gay + would piss me right off. grin

Lesbian erasure, isn't it? It would be like referring to women as 'Men etc.' or 'Non-men'.

Oh, wait, the Green Party did that, didn't they ...

VashtaNerada Wed 13-Apr-16 09:31:29

Rufus the problem with Gay + is that the LGB rights movement has been dominated by (white) men and it's really important we talk about the distinct issues faced by others in that group. But it's true that, unless you see bi as an umbrella term, there are a lot of definitions that get left out!

acasualobserver Wed 13-Apr-16 09:31:46

Doesn't it occur to you she might not be fully comfortable talking in personal terms - or might be asking because she is thinking about a family member or friend?

The OP is quite at liberty to make either or both of those points.

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