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to think someone is being massively diddled here?

(45 Posts)
TomsBeard Thu 31-Mar-16 12:17:16

I will try to be concise

As this has imploded, the family's discussions are going nowhere- I'd like some other perspectives.

In short

A woman in her 60's has a business interest abroad.
She contacts all three of her DC as tells them that she has been swindled to the tune of roughy £135k and asks help from all three children to bail her out so she can finish the project (property renovation) and at least sell off what she's been left with.

Two DC refuse point blank and question her business acumen. On DC remortgages their home- goes on the project manage the entire thing for 18 months straight (going abroad for every weekend bar one or two at xmas)

The project is a success- it looks like it will make a profit.(it does- it makes £300k profit.

One DC(hild) who was a refuser to help mentions this is completely unfair as the properly is their birthright and would be left to them so they deserve at the very least a third of all profits made. The mother decides to repay the extra borrowing done by the child who did help and add some more money for travel expenses (all documented but that is all no money given for all the time project managing) The dc who helped is given no more as it is agreed by the mother that should be split evenly.

The dc who helped finds out (in error) the mother has given a 60k loan to one of the dc who refused to help (to help buy a but to let property- the other dc who refused to help (but mentions the birthright thing gets a similar amount to buy a house)

The dc who refused and mentioned the third spilt of all profits now no longer speak to the DC who helped and rescued the project turning it into profit. She will not speak to them or their wife children because she maintains they are mercenary and cash greedy.

Any opinions- its really having a negative effect.

OTheHugeManatee Thu 31-Mar-16 12:18:52

It reads like a modern version of King Lear shock

TomsBeard Thu 31-Mar-16 12:19:42

Oh does it?

Sorry I'm very uncultured Ive never read it grin

SurlyValentine Thu 31-Mar-16 12:23:16


Yes, the DC who remortgaged their house has been massively conned here. Birthright schmirthright - had that one DC not stepped up with the funds from their remortgage, the property would have been a shell and probably worth very very little when their DM passed away.

Sounds like the DM gave in for an easy life, and has split the profit three ways but "through the back door" for a quiet life.

The DC who remortgaged would have been better off buying the property off their DM in the state it was in, finishing off the renovation themselves and then selling it.

OTheHugeManatee Thu 31-Mar-16 12:23:26

Sorry, bit flip. On the basis of these facts it does sound unfair. Has the person who helped demanded a bigger share of the profit or done something else to make them seem mercenary? If not then it looks like the other ones accusing them of this might be projecting a bit.

TBH it's hard to say without knowing more. How is the property a 'birthright'? Did the one who helped expect payment? TBH I'm not sure anyone 'deserves' a sure of the profits as they don' own it - though the one who helped obviously needs to be reimbursed and it would not be unreasonable to give them something for the time they spent.

TomsBeard Thu 31-Mar-16 12:26:39

The dc who helped needed travel to be reimbursed and as they had a young dc and a baby on the way- they did the 18 month stint on the basis that he would be paid yes and be able to use that money for his growing family.

TomsBeard Thu 31-Mar-16 12:28:39

I apologise that no contract was drawn up but the mother told the DC that as the one had helped any profits of losses in the project would be split 50/50- the other two DC were then given another chance to either help financially or give up time every weekend to help out- they declined.

When the project was finished the birthright refuser spent a weekend there to inspect and ask for one of the apartments hmm

britnay Thu 31-Mar-16 12:36:35

bah, she should Will her money away to helpful child and the cats home!

TomsBeard Thu 31-Mar-16 12:38:57

Birthright child was told quite clearly that at the point of the DM asking for help- the whole project was going into administration as she (DM) had no money to fund it. A third of no money is by my calculations NO MONEY! Hence NO BIRTHRIGHT doh!

elephantpig Thu 31-Mar-16 12:41:05

I'm guessing you are the wife of the child who remortgaged?
The mother and child should have split 50:50, then whatever the mother wants to do with 'her' money is her choice.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 31-Mar-16 12:44:00

Surely "birthright" means they get their share when the mother dies - it all sounds very odd and rather dysfunctional to me.

I would have thought that the DC who helped should get their expenses repaid, and then anything else split as part of the estatr when DM dies.

Another other loans should have been given in basis of need rather than some bizarre birthright obligation over the foreign property.

arethereanyleftatall Thu 31-Mar-16 12:45:09

Presumably you're the wife of the helper? (Since you've written the post showing that person only in a very positive light).
On the basis of what you have written, obviously the non helpers should get absolutely nothing out of this venture.
But is there more to it? Could they help?

MatildaTheCat Thu 31-Mar-16 12:45:39

Money, loans, family/ friends. Rarely ends well. sad

Of course the child that helped and took a financial risk should be rewarded. The others should, IMO, receive a share of the worth of the property prior to the renovation if they receive a red cent. However,my hat won't happen.

can you tell I have a story of my own?

arethereanyleftatall Thu 31-Mar-16 12:46:11

*have helped?

centigrade451 Thu 31-Mar-16 12:46:55

Money brings out the worst in people. Is it any wonder that the love of money is root of all kinds of evil. It really has the capacity to break families apart. The more money involved the worse it is.

You will have to chalk it down to experience. You did the right thing, you went above and beyond. You did not get any benefit from doing the right thing. In fact you got a little less than a kick in the teeth. Life is like that.

You should at the least have got the equivalent of a paid project manager as recompense for the time spent. That would be fair. You may want to say that to your mother - that extra for the travel cost is not enough. That you time was worth money as well and this should be reflected.

As long as you have said your peace to your mother - it is up to her how she divides the money, regardless of fairness. Ultimately it is her property.

Twitterqueen Thu 31-Mar-16 12:47:18

Well it is all massively unfair. You mention 'apartments'. I would perhaps have expected the DC who remortgaged and helped to be given one of these apartments in payment for their efforts (on top of everything else of course).

But families.... Good luck trying to sort it all out. This is exactly whey contracts should always be drawn up.

thecatfromjapan Thu 31-Mar-16 12:49:58

So child A received a loan, Child B received help with a house, and child C - who did the work - has received nothing but has been partially reimbursed for outgoings on project?


Well, I guess you know why mum got into financial difficulties in the first place: she has little common-sense and no financial sense. I suspect she doesn't manage people terribly well and doesn't have the stomach for life's hurdles - be that in business or with people.

I think child C has to decide what they want to get out of this situation. Are they willing to let it create a rift with siblings and parent? Do they want recompense? Do they want some sort of equality?

If it's the latter, they can simply say to mother, 'you have done x for a and y for c, it makes me feel unloved that you haven't done similar for me.' My guess is that they will all reply 'but you don't need it!'

Which is, of course, very unfair.

I think child c needs to 'own' their competency and put their skills to use in an area where they will be repaid in clear ways, rather than get caught up in the swamps of family craziness.

I suspect, if it had been business, cild c wouldn't have gone a where near the project.

I further suspect that there is a whole history of family craziness behind this: guilt, resentment, anger.

It may be best to put the whole thing behind you and get some therapy move in.

Sorry for you. I'll bet it was a real pain in the ass.sad

Theoretician Thu 31-Mar-16 12:56:48

The fair way to do this is that the DC who helped and the mother are partners in the project, and any profits are split between them according to their contributions. (The two partners can be paid for their time and expenses, those are costs of the partnership which are deducted in the process of computing profit.)

The DC who leant money is being ripped off if they only get borrowings repaid and expenses. Their money was at risk, they deserve a share of the profits for that. (Not for the project management, for that they should get expenses plus salary/payment for their time.)

The mothers share should then be split between evenly between all DC, assuming she wants go give it away. (The split can be adjusted to even out the total money she has given each, if she has already given uneven amounts.)

Theoretician Thu 31-Mar-16 12:58:14

Perhaps get an independent accountant to arbitrate on what is a fair split of the partnership profits between mother and contributing DC.

thecatfromjapan Thu 31-Mar-16 12:59:26


Families aren't businesses. Is it that cild a and child c weren't in a position to help?

I would strongly suggest, before going off the deep end, take a deep breath, a cup of coffee, and a few minutes: imagine yourself as a mother of three. You love your children. You know they have different abilities and flaws. You worry about the ones who have worrying flaws. You feel guilt about their vulnerabilities.

Imagine how tough this situation must be.

You want all your children to be secure and to be loved.

To achievd that, sometimes you may act in ways that aren't quite the same as 'legal' justice or equality.

I'm wondering if that is what went on here.

I'm not saying that to minimise what happened. I'd be devastated, frankly. I'd feel exploited and second-best.

I'm only putting it out there as an imaginative exercise in the hope that it might give you some way forward.

I strongly suspect dysfunctional famy dynamics behind this! Mainly because of the lack of communication.

Poor all of you.

TomsBeard Thu 31-Mar-16 13:08:47

The CatfromJapan what a wonderful reply and a very different perspective. I think you all for your points of view.

The project was finished and all apartments were sold by us (when I was able to I helped too abroad- I was up ladders with a hard hard a week before my dd was born!)

I get you want to treat your children equally and love them the same however if one of my dc had gone out of their way, emotionally, financially risking their own comfort, family quality time and home, I would've made sure what I agreed to I would have stuck by. The other schools WERE in a position to help and voiced why they wouldn't- they said in front on their DM - you are a liability I will not risk my house of your foolish mistakes. sad

We have nothing to do with them now. We are working hard ourselves to regain the money that didn't materialise as promised and at least Dh knows I'm the type to stick around and hold the fort when things go south.

TomsBeard Thu 31-Mar-16 13:10:39

Can I also add after the financial split of 50/50 was agreed with his mother- we didn't care what she did with her profits - that was her business to give to her dc if she so desired -

PovertyPain Thu 31-Mar-16 13:14:04

I hope you got the interest that would have accrued on the mortgage. No doubt mil will fuck up again in the future and come cap in hand. I hope your DH/DP has learnt his lesson.

RunnerOnTheRun Thu 31-Mar-16 13:15:52

TomsBeard - are you still in contact with Mum? on talking terms? Has she explained why she gave the other two DC £60k each and not to you?

Viviennemary Thu 31-Mar-16 13:23:36

Was nothing put in writing as to how the profit was to be shared out before this project started. Or even what would happen if there was a loss. I know it's easy to be wise in hindsight but even when family is involved somebody should draw up something in writing. Did you get nothing apart from payment for your work and expenses. Of course it's massively unfair since you took the risk. All this motherly love and wanting to treat your children as equals is utter twaddle when peopl.e behave in this horrible selfish money grubbing fashion always looking out for themselves. You have every right to feel furious. I'd see if a solictor can help but it's doubtful if there's nothing in writing.

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