Every night. Every goddamn night.

[DiscoGlitter]

Sorry, just need to vent and here seemed as good a place as any.
The two children share a bedroom (8 and 12) and we can never put them to bed at the same time as they piss about and wind each other up chronically. (Would leave them to it but they end up screaming at each other.)
So inevitably we''ll have one downstairs until the other falls asleep, but even though that usually works, it still has it's downfalls.
Tried to move the eldest tonight after he was dozing, but won't have any of it.
Would have left him to it but DH up about 4am in the morning for shift work and so will be disturbed.
Which means he's going to be an utter nightmare tomorrow. On a school night. (DS, not DH!)
As long as he gets up OK for school I'll have to suck it up. (Have you ever tried to shift a gangly 12 year old upstairs doing the toddler stiff as a board post?! Flat out impossible!) Can't be doing with the hassle anymore.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh rant over.

[RomComPhooey]

[Grilledaubergines]

Put the 8 year old to bed earlier, they need more sleep. An hour or so later, will they be asleep? Then 12 year old goes.

YANBU by the way. Sounds a bloody pain!

[DiscoGlitter]

grilledaubergine that's what I did. Put the 8 year old to bed an hour earlier thinking he'd be asleep by the time 12 year old came to bed.
Little sod darling still wide awake though. I think he's half vampire or something and comes alive at night.
romcom thank you, I need it!

[flubdub]

Can they have something that keeps each of them occupied in their own bed? Audiobooks are amazing and can always get new ones from the library. Can they draw? Make a "comic" together? Music with headphones?
I have four kids, but three boys aged 11, 7 and 5. The 7 and 5 year old share a room but they both do their own thing otherwise they fight.

For example, the 5 year fell asleep tonight doing a handwriting book, bless, and the 8 year old listens to music with his headphones on.

Or maybe a board game they can do together? Something like mousetrap is good to fiddle with, as they don't normally follow the rules anyway. Or Buckaroo? It might keep them occupied until one of them is tired?

[RandomMess]

Hmm put 8 year old to bed in your bed and sleep walk him to his bed later on?

Complete nightmare - any chance of splitting the room or is it just too small

[SohowdoIdothis]

One trick is to go and sit in the room with them and read a book to yourself, that way they cannot talk, and at least one falls asleep quite quickly.

I have used this technique to get entire hostel rooms of teens to sleep, if they can't cause each other to be stimulated, then they drop off fast, the more you do it the faster they drop off.

use a head torch that way there are no lights to turn off as you leave, and give any pretenders about ten minutes and they will drop off.

[flubdub]

Also, it's hard to bare in mind that your 12 year old is coming to an awkward age, and at times will want his own space, and to be left alone. Many things that your 8 year old will be interested in, will be "childish" and boring to him.

[Grilledaubergines]

Sorry I misunderstood re timings!

Don't know what to suggest very helpfully

How about telling them that for every one minute of farting about at bed time, their bedtime gets ten minutes earlier. That might focus them!

[Grilledaubergines]

One trick is to go and sit in the room with them and read a book to yourself, that way they cannot talk, and at least one falls asleep quite quickly.

I like this idea

[DiscoGlitter]

flubdub Audio books sounds a good idea, I think they'd like that.
Just need to get them a personal device which enables them to listen to them via headphones (they've got tablets each if that'll work? Technophobe, lol)
I'm scratching the board game idea though. 8 year old is the biggest sore loser going. Tried the playing a game near bedtime before.
It always ends with the 8 year old upending the board everywhere if he loses and having a massive tantrum.

[DiscoGlitter]

Complete nightmare - any chance of splitting the room or is it just too small
This is an option, as it's a big room and could easily be split into two separate bedrooms.
Trouble is it costs money and we're skint! (Unless we remortgage to get some cash and we're not far from being all paid off now)

[LBOCS2]

Audiobooks will work through the tablets, but blue light from screens isn't great for helping them sleep.

Could you help create a 'den' for each of them so that they can't see each other? We've got DSS a bunk bed 'tent' which means he can get in and be hidden with his nightlight - less opportunity for irritation by "looking at each other" etc...

[PoshSlapper]

Have you asked them what would work? What would help? Or maybe some bribery - each night they get to sleep by x time (or are quiet enough for you to think they are asleep) then they get a reward - A fiver to spend on the air hockey at the local bowling alley? Some money towards a cinema trip?

If they take too long to get to sleep - (or shut the F up ) then no money.

[flubdub]

There are loads of audiobooks for kids on YouTube. So they will work on tablets and you can lock the screen so that they don't have the light (or temptation from other apps!) keeping them awake.

[neonrainbow]

Loss of privilege if they don't stop pissing around and actually go to sleep?

[Gatehouse77]

When my sister and I shared a room one us was put to bed in my parents room and then carried/walked through to our room when they went to bed.
And if we got caught keeping each other awake we got a wolloping - I don't recommend the last part but there could be consequences...

[puzzledbyadream]

Curtain down the middle of the room could work.

[TresDesolee]

Can you put up some sort of partition with chipboard or something - even if it looks crap?

I feel for you - one of mine has to sleep in the tiniest room you could imagine (single bed and literally nothing else) but at least I had a third bedroom albeit a stupidly small one. They used to drive me nuts when they shared.

[Underdogsbollocks]

OP if your DH is any good at DIY mine put a stud partition in our DD's room last year for £130 all in .

[upthegardenpath]

If it's a large room OP, what about this as a room divider?

www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/categories/departments/living_room/11465/

Cheap, modular system, which is made to be seen from both sides and you can fill in as many of the square spaces as you like, or leave the odd one see-through. Comes with doors, drawers and various inserts.

A lot cheaper than an actual partition and can be removed easily one day.

[MuddlingMackem]

Could you rearrange the furniture to make two individual spaces, eg by putting the wardrobes down the middle to make a divider, with the wardrobes obviously opening on to the appropriate child's space. Possibly back to back bookshelves on top of the wardrobes if needed for extra wall height. Depending on the location of the door you could maybe make a lobby with a curtain to each area of the room so they've got no excuses for going into each others space unless invited.

It won't block sound out of each others space, so they'd still need headphones, but they wouldn't be physically in each others faces all the time.

[DiscoGlitter]

OP if your DH is any good at DIY mine put a stud partition in our DD's room last year for £130 all in

Ooh, that's good to know. We could just about manage that financially, thought it would cost more!
Only problem is giving DH a big enough kick up the arse to actually DO any DIY. It's not that he can't do it, because he can - but he just seems to be allergic to it or something as can never get started!

[AvaCrowder]

My dd 9 is a really bad loser too. If she wasn't so distressed it would be funny.

I would have the younger one fall asleep in a different room, like your big bed. But I'd probably keep him all night for cuddles.

I'm getting sentimental!

[Happydays38]

Totally feel your pain discoglitter!!! Last week I asked my boys to empty the entire contents of their room onto the landing (except beds!!) which they did as it was such a novelty - then I told them they would have to win back all their toys by settling in bed, not fighting etc and sleeping through the night staying in their own beds. It's working!!!!!!!!!!! Every morning they choose a toy to go back to their room with - they've learnt to work together to choose complimenting toys eg one chooses track the other chooses trains. With so many toys its sustainable for the coming weeks, costing me nothing and toys they haven't played with for years are being rediscovered! My boys are 4 and 7 xx

[May09Bump]

When we were kids, we had the same problem. Dad put wardrobes down the middle of the room - one facing to each of the beds and this divided the room. We used the backs of the wardrobes for posters etc. Or you could have a dividing curtain, with consequences of moving beyond the divide.