to think my ex DP's financial mess will place a huge burden on my DDs?(44 Posts)
Ex-DP and I have always disagreed on our 'approach to money', one of the major factors for our break up. He refuses to save, will not budget, spends everything he makes (and often more) and thinks conversations about money are 'a downer' so always refused to have them or, when together, would just storm out when discussions arose! He is financially messy - doesn't keep track of spending, outgoings, direct debits and does stupid things like takes out £10 cash on a credit card at a transaction fee of £3! Genius! I could understand his POV if he didn't have money to save after paying bills but he makes almost £50k pa and has done for many years. (I do think his attitude comes from his family who lived 'day to day' and didn't think about the future.)
As a result he is now 53, almost 54, has no savings, investments, property and, importantly, no pension. He actually refuses to save for a pension as he says its a waste of money and a 'bad investment'. When together I forced him to put some money into a pension, which he did for a while but stopped. The resulting investment will give him a grand figure of £20/year on retirement! Hurrah!
When he retires, either at std retirement age or earlier if he has ill health etc, he won't have anywhere to live (that he can afford) and no money to live on, bar the national pension all of which will probably go to renting a bedsit somewhere. It looks dire to me - but he can't see it.
He is my EX so at the end of the day it's really not my problem anymore. But I worry so much for my 2 DDs (age 3 & 10) for whom this WILL be a problem. Not only will his lack of £ mean I'll have to carry the burden of covering the costs for Higher Education etc which is okay as i have saved for them (note - he will be retired by the time our youngest goes to University/Further Education) but I constantly envision a situation where my daughters are guilted out into looking after him, paying for his accommodation and life when retired. It's a big burden and worry for someone to have about a parent, especially for children in their late teens/early 20s as they will be. I'm so cross that he never thought about how his decisions will affect others in future.
I should probably add that my daughters are likely to inherit quite a bit of £ from my family and I partly think he's relying on a retirement of 'tapping them up' to get a 'piece of that action'. God. Not exactly the kind of father/daughter dynamic I was hoping for my children.
AIBU to worry about this? It's been preying on my mind a lot - and making me cross! I really don't know what to do except for save myself and educate my daughters on these issues.
By all means educate them, and encourage them to protect any inheritance they have from your parents (assuming this comes directly to them, rather than via you, in which case he can't as easility get a slice, unless you go first)
Drawing out on a credit card does huge damage to your credit rating in the long run - it implies to creditors that you had no other option and were out of cash flow.
But you probably know that!
Mega discussions of finances can be a downer, if there are no major issues, or indeed if nothing different can be done at that point, but if it is just general planning and he was avoiding that, then I totally agree! I'm talking about wallowing and mulling over things that can't be changed, which is different. If you have a plan to draw you out of a bad time, and it's been agreed, wallowing over the ins and outs an be a downer. It doesn't sound like that at all though.
Hopefully you can convince your daughters not to do anything silly for him - and if not, perhaps there is time to convince their benefactors to protect their inheritance until a later date?
guilted out into looking after him, paying for his accommodation and life when retired.
Educate and empower your daughters. You have lots of time.
If he has no assets or property when retired then the state will pay for his housing and state pension separately. He won't starve and will have no reason to beg.
Sorry, just to add, if you go first and you are not married, of course he can't get a slice, obvs!
Thx for the comments and sorry for the mega post! I don't feel optimistic that in 15 years the state will have the £ to pay for him. I feel bad that he is going to end up relying on my daughters not the other way around and that they will feel constant pressure to support him. And it didn't have to be that way.
God I hate the guy.
I wouldn't overthink what the state may or may not do - who knows? But try not to stress the totally unforseen...
Easier said than done
With no savings or property he'll get the full rate of housing allowance (enough to pay for somewhere cheap), have his council tax paid for him, and receive the basic state pension on top. His income if he was in that position today would be around £15,000. It won't be the life he is accustomed to, but he will not need any handouts.
We're quite a long way off this scenario though and it sounds like you're focusing a lot of anger here. I think there's little point in letting him get to you... His bed, he'll lie in it. Don't think your daughters will pity him. If he's self absorbed and feckless they'll see that themselves.
If they suddenly cut everyone off without a private pension, with no warning, there will be a hell of a lot of homeless people. So at least he will be in good company
I'm being flippant because I really think we are a long, long way off from this, and actually I don't think we will get to this in our lifetime. There may be others who disagree, but please just focus on the facts and the here and now, and not future scaremongering. This can happen a lot when people are upset with the current government, which may change many times over the next 15 years.
You haven't yet clarified how this potential inheritance may come to pass - is it via you or straight to them? If it is straight to them, I would encourage them to invest in property as soon as they get it. If they do, he can at worst be a lodger.
Whatever happens, it is in their name or yours.
Nothing ever needs be signed over. Okay, he may benefit, in terms of a roof over his head, if they want to, but he won't profiteer?
Thx for your comments. I just find it frustrating that I can't influence the situation and each month and it's all a bit like watching a car crash in slo mo. And particularly irritating when I see him on the weekends in new expensive clothes or making plans to take daughters ok holidays he can't afford (he takes out payday loans to cover the costs). Total mess.
I feel badly that they've ended up with a dud of a father that will be a burden to them at a relatively young age. Bah.
Tatty. My dad is mid seventies and is planning to pass down money to me and my brothers assuming of course it doesn't get used to cover his costs, health etc. As well he's told me he's allocated some money specifically for my two daughters as well. It's quite a bit of money for them eg high six figures each. Luckily he's sensible enough to ensure they couldn't get full access to it until they are 18 or older.
My ex knows my dads situation and is grabby enough to try to get access to the gravy train through them.
I'm just mad that I can't force my ex to save. I just have to sit and watch as he blows it all away...
But you have no actual reason to think he'll be a burden to them. It's your duty to bring them up to understand that they do not enable their dysfunctional father, no? I think your anxiety over this is a little out of proportion, though I get where you're coming from.
As people have said, you need to educate your daughters and make sure they feel empowered to make their own decisions.
But YABU to be this angry with someone for something they haven't done yet and you don't know for certain they're going to do. It must be quite destructive for your daughters if you're this angry with him for things he hasn't done.
Maybe he has no intention of retiring? Maybe he wants to work until he drops? Maybe he'll meet a woman who will support him? Maybe he'll get hit by a bus tomorrow? Maybe he'll take himself off to dignitas? Maybe we'll go to war with Russia next year and all the properties and investments you have will be worth next to nothing? What if you outlive him by 20 years so they never inherit anything until he's dead? There are far too many possibilities and it's a long way off. Don't expend your energy being so pointlessly angry about something you can't change.
Do educate your daughters in how to deal with this, but please don't do it in a way which involves actively slating their father to them. Bad feeling between parents is awful for children. And really, this just isn't worth it.
Ride - I know I'm getting a bit too worked up about it. But every time I see him sporting a new 'pretty green' jacket or wearing his cool new Heston-style glasses I just get so cross knowing all his flagrant spending will put pressure on daughters. Oh and the fact that he can't see the point in saving for their education at all is just so galling. Nope buying cool new threads is more important than all those things!
OP, in the kindest possible way. You are not in a relationship with this man anymore. You can't control what he does. It may be frustrating but at the same time, you really do need to let go. Do you generally struggle with control issues?
I would agree with Bill Sykes that quite a likely scenario is that he will meet
a string of women who wil support him in some form.
I get why you are concerned and I am a daughter in a not totally dissimilar scenario. It's not great, no, but over time we have all got better at dealing with it. What I can tell you is that though my two marriages have had certain issues, one thing I have always done is choose men who are financial planners and for whom a cosy evening in with a household budget spreadsheet is top fun. I love that about both of them, and it is purely because anything smelling of financial chicanery is an instant dealbreaker for me. My dad (well of course actually my mum) did that for me, and it's likely you have done the same for your daughters.
Bill. Honestly I'm not a control freak! I'm just dealing with ten years of pent up anger on this subject and many others!
annandale, I think he'll probably be supported by one or more women too. My (childless) Great Aunty was snagged by one of those men after she was widowed. Funnily enough they were actually really happy for the last years of her life and his kids did really well out of it because they eventually inherited. Which was a bit rubbish for her side of the family who lost out. But at least she was happy!
Fair enough OP. Good to come on here and have a rant sometimes with things you need to get out but couldn't say to anybody IRL!
OP, the money your Dad has for your DD could be put 'in trust' and he could put restrictions, e.g. that it is for education, or house deposit etc etc. and he could even put a further restriction that it may not be used to the benefit of "a named person". Or he could name you as custodian (or whatever it's called) until they reach 25. So you can give them money out of the pot, but they can't take it.
In your position I would try to engineer something like that. Which firstly would mean they couldn't spent a large amount when they just turn 18, and also would mean they can't be persuaded to give it to their dad.
My DH is the same age as your exDH and when I met him 20 years ago just spent everything and gave no thought. Fortunately he grew out of it/got housetrained/started to think/became more sensible when we had DC. It's really a shame that ex-DH can't see further than the mirror, but unfortunately you just have to leave that there.
I honestly believe you are doing the right thing protecting your DDs financial future and guarding against the risk that he will persuade them to give him the money when they are young and vulnerable.
Hmm, just a random thought here, what if your Dad puts money into a pension fund for each of them? They would have a security for later life (which is hard to generate these days) and can't give it away. I don't mean all of the money, but what about half??? It might do them a lot of favours....
My father was the same as your exh.
I inherited money from my grandfather when I was 11 but it had a million clauses attached to it - to be used to fund my education, to be held by my very sensible
and most tight fisted aunt and uncle untill I became 27 or got married, it was so tied up that any withdrawal over x amount had to get a judge's approval, specified amounts of money were ringfenced for my birthdays and I always got a 'bonus' payment just after Christmas, each year I had to research and name a new charity which would get 10% of the interest payments/ dividends my money had earnt that year, etc etc.
He wasn't English but I'm sure uk law will have a similar sort of system a available.
I'm very glad I didn't get the full whack when I was 18 or 21. It meant that when my dad came to me pleading poverty I could pass him the occasional £50 to help him out, but not actually dent my savings. Then when I did get access to the full balance I was already used to working/earning My own money, understood the value of it and was desperate to buy a house (which I managed to do without getting a mortgage).
Grumpy - good idea about a trust ad ways to protect the money.
Salmiak - wow about your experiences and very tightly restricted trust fund. How did you feel about your dad growing up? Did you find it frustrating that he asked you for money? Did you have a good relationship with him or was it coloured by the economic disparity between the two of you? Or did that become a non issue in the end? How did things work out?
Is there any chance you could speak to your dad and ask him to put some restrictions on the money, such as those mentioned by Salmiak I bet your dad doesn't want to see any of his money benefiting your loser ex either.
I share the same worries you do about my own father, for the same reasons. My purely self interested younger sibling would actually remove himself from the country in order to avoid helping in any way so it likely be all on me.
I'm not really sure what I'd do if he started showing interest in moving in with me 10 or so years down the line. The thought stresses me out immensely.
Instil a sensible attitude to money in your dds. Educate them in basic finance. As they get older tell them about bad money practices like spending more that your income payday loans about people who pay to take cash out in cc etc. Tell them never to loan friends money that they can't afford to give away. Etc
Get your dad to put some controls on the money he is leaving them.
At the end of the day he is your ex so his money problems aren't your concern and I wouldn't be giving him the headspace. It's unlikely he will be homeless in his old age.
Just a thought and I might be wrong, but I think a court can compel him to contribute towards your dc university expenses. It might not help your youngest much if he has already retired by then (although he might find he cannot afford to retire when he wants) , but it could help your older dc.
Not fair that you get to pay for everything.
I would def get my dad to tie up their inheritance so they cannot squander it on him.
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