To think school should be doing more to protect DS and others?

[omegamale]

DS is in year 3 at local primary school. Generally a good bunch of children but one boy in his class has serious issues around ADHD (I think he has some kind of diagnosis) which include violence.
I can think of at least three children who have been removed to other schools directly because of 'Boy X'. He is a bright kid but seems to have no social behaviour filter and is very intolerant and aggressive.
DS wavers between extreme confidence and deep uncertainty, and he's not able to keep Boy X away. This boy is overly aggressive during playground football (for example) and yesterday, when DS joined the game late and picked up the ball, Boy X grabbed DS, threw him down and bit his hand (hard). DS was only trying to pass the ball back and ask to join in. Playground staff were on hand to sort it and Boy X did go to class teacher, who has given him a one breaktime in classroom sanction and also told him he will miss 15 mins of today's PE lesson.
Only a couple of weeks ago, DS went to the toilet, singing away (as normal)
and Boy X, who was in a cubicle, told DS to open the door (which was unlocked), then flicked a dirty toilet brush all over him. I spoke to head teacher about this - not least because of the potential health consequences - and Boy X was excluded for a day but not a great deal else happened and the HT, a born diplomat, suggsted that because only the two boys were present, there was no proof DS didn't do something to annoy/upset Boy X. I know he didn't, and he was pretty traumatised by the episode.
Boy X enters and leaves school via reception instead of the normal route, and spends a good half his school day working on his own outside the head teacher's office - because of his general disruption and more specific bullying - but the school seems reluctant to act properly on this issue.
His parents are pretty strict with him, and his mother is clearly at her wits' end. I have some sympathy for her, but more for DS and his classmates, who are sick of having to put up with this situation.
We have a good relation with school and I don't want to go behind their back to complain to LEA, but I'm not sure what else to do.

[salsamillion]

What do you think the school should do?

[PaulAnkaTheDog]

Oh that sounds awful.

[NeedACleverNN]

It's a tough one....

On one hand it's obvious the school are trying.

On the other, the other children are at his mercy

Short of excluding which is unfair for a child of year 3, what else can the school realistically do?

[Katenka]

It's a really difficult one.

I can see both sides.

Dd moved schools in year two when we moved. A boy similar to the boy in your op bullied her until we removed her in year 5. The school didn't do anything. This boy was not diagnosed however. His parents were pursing a diagnosis and have been doing since he was 4. The final straw was when he had hold of her by her hair and the school wouldn't accept it was bullying.

We moved her to another school. 6 months later, the boy was removed from the old school and put in dds new school, the September they went to year 6.

By January the police became involved and they charged him. The new school still didn't want to do anything. Until I threatened to take dd home and put a full complaint in. They just kept telling me that he had a right to an education but didn't want to acknowledge dds right to attend school without being assaulted.

The police spoke to the school at a meeting and explained that he extra needs did not make it ok for him to behave as he did. They told them they were charging because either his needs are so complex he can't control himself and therefore shouldn't be in a mainstream school or he is responsible for his actions.

They are now at secondary (since September) and the boy has been moved out of the school after hospitalising two other children. He still hasn't been diagnosed with anything and he is 12z I understand these things can take a long time

However on the other hand there is a girl with similar problems in ds' class and she did once scratch ds. But in this case the school are doing what they can to avoid her triggers and supervise her if they see something starting. The school do not put blame on pupils who have been injured. I do believe (I know the parents) that mainstream school is the best place for this girl and is helping her massively.

I don't want to see all children with extra needs removed the minute they step out of line. But I would like to see more protection for children that are hurt. The protection of other children doesn't seem to be standard across the board at all schools.

At dds secondary it's definitely a priority for them.

[zippey]

It would be better all round for the majority if the boy was excluded. Is this an option for the school?

[omegamale]

I know funding has been slashed for schools, social services, CAMHS etc but I would like to think the school is pushing for assistance to deal with this issue. Clearly excluding this boy for the odd day is not working, and if he can be integrated properly he should be, but this stuff has been going on for a couple of years and affects the whole class

[salsamillion]

So, there's a little boy with SEN, who struggles to regulate his behaviour. Half the time he's not even in the class, he's working on his own, , and his parents are strict with him. The school has already implemented some measures to manage the situation, he's already been excluded, and you, despite not being there, believe your son didn't do anything to provoke the toilet brush incident. You firmly believe that three separate families have gone to the huge step of moving schools because of this child. What do you think the school should do?

[Katenka]

salsa my dd did nothing to provoke the person who assaulted her and put her hospital. She tried to steer clear of him completely, by then point the police were involved she avoided him at all cost. It didn't stop him breaking her nose and then threatening that if she told me he would kill her.

I am sure the girl that he threatened to rape didn't provoke it either.

[midnightlurker]

Move your child if you can. Boy X can't help being the way he is, and by the sounds of it his condition is being managed poorly. In my extended family there is a child where doctors took forever to diagnose and treat ADHD. It all came to a head when another child's bone was broken in an altercation at school. So terrible for all concerned - with their condition managed properly my relative is the most caring and gentle of people, wouldn't hurt a fly!

[salsamillion]

I was addressing the OP, not you Katenka. And sometimes children with special needs find things provoking that NT children are doing without realising.

[WorraLiberty]

I'm not sure why people are asking the OP what she thinks the school should do. It's the school's job to keep all of the children safe...as hard as that obviously is, but it's not really down to the OP to come up with ideas for them.

OP, I think all you can do is make an appointment with the school and tell them about your concerns.

There was a child like this in my DC's old primary school, but it was well funded and the child eventually had a 1 to 1 TA to supervise him at playtime/toilet breaks. They also had an inclusion unit/sensory room where children could go to calm down if they needed to. So this sort of issue was a bit easier all round.

If you don't get any joy with the school, write to the chair of governors first. If you start with the LA, they will normally refer you back to the chair of govs if you've missed that step.

[Sallyhasleftthebuilding]

DD and several of her classmates moved schools because of one child -

It happens - it's not right - or fair - her X classmates are still suffering - the LEA have been spoken too by me and the other parents and existing parents and still no change.

There should be other placements available for children who obviously can not cope in mainstream -

[omegamale]

I only believe three separate families have gone to the huge step of moving schools because each of the children's mothers has told me, salsamillion. And, yes, I do believe DS didn't provoke the toilet incident. I am not nterested in engineering a permanent (or even temporary) exclusion for this boy - I just want to see a situation where school take a more hands-on approach to managing his behaviour towards the boys and girls in his class. I am hoping other posters might have some suggestions I can go back to the HT with. I am not interested in being a flag-bearer for some 'string him up' campaign, I just want to see DS going to school without having to think about all this

[omegamale]

Incidentally, salamillion, I have quite a lot of understanding of these issues. This is DS2. DS1 has SEN

[WorraLiberty]

On a separate note...and I do realise this is such a Mumsnet thing to say, but why on earth have they got toilet brushes in the toilets?

I would have thought that was a health hazard in itself really. Most schools keep their brushes locked away, or kept with the cleaner/caretaker.

[Katenka]

I was addressing the OP, not you Katenka.

Why is the situation different?

[Sallyhasleftthebuilding]

Your approach should be "what are you doing to protect my child" they have a care of duty towards him and the others -

The other thing that bugs me is the teachers time taken to deal with the child - which means less learning time for the children - DD regularly missed an hour with the HT ranting at the class - very poor management - a kind of let's talk to them all so boy doesn't feel isolated type thing -

She happy now she's moved - and I'd do it again!

[TeenAndTween]

It sounds to me as if the boy needs a 1-1 at least out of lessons.

The best you can hope for is asking how they will keep your child safe, but in the absence of 1-1 I don't see how they will manage it ...

[salsamillion]

Because for a start Katenka, the child the OP is talking about, has diagnosed additional issues. No doubt the child who assaulted your daughter has oh ther things going on too but in THIS case the child already has known issues he has to deal with.

[salsamillion]

OP I'm pleased to hear you have some insight into SN, and hopefully this thread won't go the way of so many, with SN kids being treated like pariahs.

[WorraLiberty]

I was addressing the OP, not you Katenka. And sometimes children with special needs find things provoking that NT children are doing without realising.

As much as I understand that some kids with SN find some things provoking that some kids with NT can do without realising it, I'm not entirely sure what your point is Salsamillion.

If (for example) this child's trigger was that the OP's son was singing in the toilet, the child still needs help in not reacting by flicking a dirty toilet brush over him.

Every child has individual triggers and the school still has a duty of care, to keep all the children safe.

[NeedACleverNN]

This is actually intresting to read aswell.

My oldest is almost 3 so no school yet. However I do wonder what I would do in this position.

So when I asked what you think the school should do, I wasn't being sarcastic I was genuinely interested for future possibilities

[omegamale]

Salsamillion I'm anxious not to encourage that sort of initiative, in RL or on MN, which is why I was hoping for some sound advice here. Incidentally, I only suspect this boy has a diagnosis. I'm not about to ask the HT or his parents outright. I know about that stuff too

[omegamale]

Didn't take offence, NeedA - it's a valid question.

[omegamale]

Katenka yours sounds like a miserable experience. Don't really know what to offer in terms of suggestions