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To just give up?

(25 Posts)
Stanky Tue 01-Mar-16 19:29:03

Also posted in SN, but posting here for traffic.

Ds has had global developmental delays, which were picked up at his 2 and a half year check. He now has grommets, and his speech has improved enormously. He still didn't have a clue about potty training just after his 4th birthday, but 6 months later he can finally do wees on the toilet and stay dry during the day.

I can't remember the last time ds did a poo on the toilet, and when he did it just seemed to be a lucky catch for us. It's very frustrating now, as we have just sat him on the toilet and kept him in the bathroom for over an hour. He hadn't been all day, and will usually poo at least once or twice a day. He insisted that he didn't need to go, and that he was trying. It seemed cruel, and he was getting upset, so I let him come out and put a pull up on. When we go to put him to bed less than half hour later, he's pooed in the pull up. He does this every time. I'm so sad about it, because soon it's no longer going to be just my problem, but it's going to become his embarrassing problem. We've tried stickers and rewards. He loves to watch videos on my phone, and I've told him he can once he does a poo on the toilet. Obviously we've tried sitting him on the toilet for long periods of time, after meals when he usually goes. I don't understand. I thought that he just couldn't control it, but now I'm thinking that he just prefers to go in the pull up for some reason. His diet is good, and he has never been constipated, his stools are always formed, and he goes at least once a day. I don't know what else to try. He has to wear pants with a sanitary towel at school, at the school's suggestion as they kept having to throw his pants away. We will be seeing the school nurse soon, but I seriously don't know what else to try. I just feel like crying. Any suggestions? Thanks.

coughingbean Tue 01-Mar-16 19:44:42

I am so sorry I don't have any suggestions, didn't want to read and run. And hopefully a little bump for you.
thanksthanks

PenelopeChipShop Tue 01-Mar-16 19:47:56

Sorry I'm no expert and I'm sure you've heard of it but I found 'poo goes to pooland' very helpful in clicking everything into place. If you google it there's a free document you can scroll through.

I think it's really aimed at kids who withhold but it just illustrates really well what you're aiming for.

Stanky Tue 01-Mar-16 20:00:25

Thanks for the kind replies. smile

Fresh01 Tue 01-Mar-16 20:07:46

Have you ever looked at the Eric website?

www.eric.org.uk

It has heaps of information and help for parents with children who have continence issues, both day and night.

Stanky Tue 01-Mar-16 20:08:07

Thanks, I will show him the poo story tomorrow.

thejoysofboys Tue 01-Mar-16 20:10:16

Please don't despair! You're not alone on this one. I have a fairly bright 4 year old who hit all the usual milestones on time but pooing on the toilet is a similar struggle for him. He doesn't poo in his pants but just holds and holds it until he gets leakage and gives himself constipation. Most days his pants has skid marks.🙄
Please go and speak to your GP. Ours was lovely and we're now trying movicol to see it that can get him back on track. But I've mentioned this to a few friends and at least 3 have had similar issues with their kids and poo! At least two are regular visitors to the "poo nurse" whose sole occupation is to teach kids to poo on the loo!
I feel your frustration - the constant stream of dirty undies drives me to distraction but I do believe that they all get there in the end.

Stanky Tue 01-Mar-16 20:10:46

Thanks Fresh. I have, but I found that a lot of the advice is based on children who are constipated, and leaking around a mass in their bowel. I really don't believe that this is the case with ds.

Stanky Tue 01-Mar-16 20:14:27

Thanks thejoys. I hope that you can get back on track. We are under the paediatrician, physio therapist and Senco. Ds has sensory issues, weak core muscles and dyspraxia. Sorry, I forgot to say that in my op.

Fresh01 Tue 01-Mar-16 20:19:29

Can you make it part of your routine? I have a friend with a 10 year old who still every night has to be sent to do a poo just before bedtime. He had issues around the age of 4 and they were told to build it into his day like brushing his teeth.

Others I know have sat children on the toilet in a pull up but with a hole cut on the underside of the pull-up. Till they got use to the feeling of it coming out.

Toileting issues in kids are very fustrating and not much talked about by parents but are common. One of my kids has had different issues but like everything it is sorting out eventually......

Fresh01 Tue 01-Mar-16 20:22:08

You have mentioned sensory issues. Another of my children is a very sensory child. Have you tried the game doggie-doo with him? You get it in Smyths and you squeeze a handle till the dog does a big brown poo. Apparently one of those nightmare games to clean out after play or it gets bunged up. But the tactile play-doh and dog pooing may strike conversation that it is all normal processes.

Stanky Tue 01-Mar-16 20:26:06

Thanks Fresh. Yes I definitely think that we need to make it part of the routine, which we are trying to do. I try to get him to the toilet straight after breakfast or dinner, but we are either too late and he's just been, or nothing happens for half an hour, we give up, and then he goes in the pull up.

The cutting a hole in the pull up is something I haven't tried.

Stanky Tue 01-Mar-16 20:27:26

Haha That doggy doo game always looked so gross on the adverts, but maybe it might help. smile

thejoysofboys Tue 01-Mar-16 20:29:51

Ah, the sensory issues etc add a bit more to the story! Sounds like both you and he are having a tough time, OP.
If it helps, I was told to give DS a pot of bubbles to blow whilst on the toilet. Apparently the blowing action helps to relax your bowels and prevents them withholding...

Stanky Tue 01-Mar-16 20:32:48

Thank you thejoys, another thing to try. smile Ds loves him some bubbles!

CrohnicallyAspie Tue 01-Mar-16 20:35:40

As has been mentioned, there is loads of information on the ERIC website, including advice for children who will only poo in a pull up/nappy.

Basically the advice is to allow him to, if you insist on him sitting on the toilet then you risk him becoming chronically constipated- which can take years to sort. But take small steps towards him using the toilet/potty- beginning with him going to the bathroom to be changed, then going to the bathroom to poo, sitting on the toilet with pull up on...

It could take months before he is willing to go on the toilet but believe me, it is better than chronic constipation, I know children age 8 and up who are still soiling because of severe constipation, they lose muscle tone and feeling if it goes on long enough and takes a long time to retrain the bowel.

iyamehooru Tue 01-Mar-16 20:36:12

One weekend let him run round without undies on, tell him if he poos anywhere else but the toilet he will have to clean it up. Or if he poos in his pants, give him wipes and a clean pair and tell him to clean himself up. Sounds harsh but he will soon realise the alternative is a poo on the toilet and you wiping his bottom clean!

minipie Tue 01-Mar-16 20:39:27

If he has weak core muscles then could it be that sitting on the loo is not a good position for him to poo in? Squatting is a more natural pooing position for humans which means it is physically easier to poo in the pull up. Loos are hardr especially for children as their feet are dangling.

You could see if he can/will poo in a potty - that is closer to a squatting position and gets him half way there iyswim. Or if you'd rather avoid a potty, a high step for him to put his feet on while on the loo might help, if it is a position issue.

plimsolls Tue 01-Mar-16 20:40:19

Some children get very attached to pooing in a nappy and the idea of "letting go" into what feels like thin air can be really inhibiting. As a PP mentioned, some children respond to having hole cut in to nappy to poo through into toilet as a "bridging step" between pooing in nappy and pooing freely in toilet.

Another bridging step is to shake/scrape (sorry!) the poo out of nappy into toilet whilst your DS watches, and flush it away together. This helps him start to think about the "right place" for poos to go. I've not heard of it but I wonder if the Poo Goes To Pooland book mentioned above would complement this.

It's great he's not getting constipated. It sounds like you already know this but id say easy passage of poo is more important than poo in toilet so try not to let him get constipated (pain from hard poo will complicate matters and make it worse).

I used to have an advisory role re: SN and toileting in previous job. I can't remember off the top of my head any other straightforward tips but I'll come back if I do.

Oh, one last thing. For lots of children, pooing in a nappy is much more pleasant than pooing in a potty (don't see it, don't get quite so up close to it, don't smell it so much) and they've also developed their own "pooing posture". I often would advise to skip the potty step and go straight to toilet (OP I know you've done that but just adding here in case) and also see what you can do to make toilet posture similar to preferred posture (something to rest feet on/something to rest back against etc).

Good luck.

JammyGeorge Tue 01-Mar-16 20:42:41

Hi, no advice that you haven't already heard but I also have a poo withholder.

Ds2 is dry but will not poo on a toilet, when we took the nappies away he would not poo at all and ended up withholding for 4 days at a time and literally leaking.

He's now on a very small dose of movicol everyday and we put him in a pull up at night which he will poo in. He's back regular and painless and has started using the potty every now and again. I think it is something that will come in time so I'm trying not to get upset about it but sometimes a do feel desperate - you have my sympathy.

Smashie11 Tue 01-Mar-16 20:51:48

My sister is currently using poo goes to pooland for her DS. It is a free app that you can download. My DS also loves watching it as its interactive in places and the poo makes fart noises (always a win with a little boy). Good luck, hope things improve for you soon.

Chrysanthemum5 Tue 01-Mar-16 21:06:23

When the DCs were young I heard that it's hard to hold in a poo if you are blowing bubbles - something about the muscles involved. I never tried it but I'm passing it on in case it is true.

I also made up songs about poo that I used to sing to encourage pooing on the toilet grinfairly embarrassing but worth it! Even now the DCs will sometimes ask me to sing the poo song - quite embarrassing in public loos!

I hope you find an answer

Stanky Wed 02-Mar-16 04:22:50

Thanks for all the great advice. We will keep trying. smile

Fresh01 Sat 05-Mar-16 17:34:28

We were at the Enuresis clinic this week and the nurse had a leaflet titled "When poo is a problem and it's time for school". Might be worth seeing if you can get a copy from the ERIC's website.

Bubbles helped DS1. I'd wait until he obviously needed a poo, pop him on the loo and give him the bubbles. The look of total surprise on his face the first time he pooed in the loo was amazing. He was so distracted by the bubbles he didn't realise the deep breathing was helping things along.

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