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To be sick of people slating Faith schools

(1000 Posts)
Jenga123 Sat 30-Jan-16 15:09:32

Don't get me wrong I understand why some people may be against them but the negativity I've come across recently is, quite frankly ridiculous. I've been told by friends of friends, family etc that they pay for my dd's to attend their catholic primary and secondary schools and that tax payers that are paying towards these schools should not have to do so if their children can't attend these schools. Well let me just say the average amount of income tax each individual pays, that actually goes towards the upkeep of schools is minuscule, so they aren't in fact paying for them. Myself and the other parents of my dd's schools pay a considerable sum each year to the upkeep of the school and the school contributes 10% towards the costs of running their school and repairs etc.

I also come across animosity at the fact my children are getting a good education and people putting that down to them simply being baptised. But my point is if they feel that their own children are missing out by going to a less desirable school then I'm sure they could have them baptised therefor giving them a higher chance of securing a place at a faith school, and whilst I'm not advocating people pretending to be of the faith, I'm simply saying there are options.

As for my dd's schools like I said they are Catholic and are obviously places were parents of the same faith opt to send their children as they want them to be educated within that faith, and I can't see any problem with this to be honest so why am I hearing nothing but negativity from people?

cruikshank Sat 30-Jan-16 15:13:23

Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to expect people to get their kids baptised ie enrolled in a religion before they are old enough to consent to it, just in order for them to have a decent education. hmm

FellOutOfBedTwice Sat 30-Jan-16 15:14:05

I don't believe faith schools should be government funded, sorry. I think it's poor form that my options here are either "suck it up" and pay towards schools my daughter is excluded from, or have her baptised in a faith that I think is nonsense for the perks. The church should be funding their own propaganda schools to my mind. And I say this as someone who attended a catholic school for sixth form and isn't a catholic. I was absolutely appalled by the fact that these places are government funded.

BertrandRussell Sat 30-Jan-16 15:15:33


How would you feel about a local NHS hospital where Roman Catholics got priority?

Sirzy Sat 30-Jan-16 15:19:21

So your advocating people pretending to have faith just to be able to access better schools? Surely that alone shows what is wrong with the system.

FrasierCranium Sat 30-Jan-16 15:20:10

In places like Glasgow, where there is already a big problem with sectarianism, they do nothing but widen the gap and create division and conflict.

Sorry OP. I'll never support them.

Jenga123 Sat 30-Jan-16 15:21:38

I wouldn't support that, not at all, but what had being Catholic got to do with a persons health? Parents opt to chose to send their children to a school so that their children can further their knowledge and learn more about their faith, and I can't see the problem with this to be honest. So what if these schools are partially government funded, there are many popular community schools across the country were children miss out every year and this is based on distance, number of siblings in the school, that's just how it is so why should having a faith criteria be any different?

Lurkedforever1 Sat 30-Jan-16 15:23:09

Much easier than expecting people to fake belief would be simply banning religious criteria from admissions procedure. Would take about 5 mins per lea.

Why should the tax payer fund a better choice for someone with an imaginary friend? If I say I follow my personal religion of luxury surroundings and the God of ski holidays does that mean the tax payer should fund private school for my dd, because the contribution per head across the population would be minuscule?

Jenga123 Sat 30-Jan-16 15:23:10

Actually no, if you had bothered to have read my post properly you'd have seen that I said that I do not advocate people falsifying faith.

Sirzy Sat 30-Jan-16 15:23:43

Surely it's the job of parents to educate their children in a particular faith? Schools should be ensuring children access balanced, impartial (as much as possible) education around all the major religions rather than trying to force a certain religion upon a child simply because of their parents beliefs.

Sirzy Sat 30-Jan-16 15:24:13

You may have written that but it's exactly what your post is saying people can do.

WorraLiberty Sat 30-Jan-16 15:24:25

Sounds like you're certainly advocating it to me.

I went to a Catholic primary and secondary school. They were very good schools but it's made me firmly believe that religious worship has no place at all in schools.

BertrandRussell Sat 30-Jan-16 15:25:54

You know something? I just can't be bothered. I am so pig sick of Christians thinking they deserve special treatment and going all wide eyed and "can't see the problem" when people try to point out the unfairness. You would have thought that all those Christian values they keep banging on about would mean they had a keener eye for injustice than everyone else, but apparently not.

Jenga123 Sat 30-Jan-16 15:26:38

But why should they ban faith Criteria and more importantly why would it be neccesary, as I assume that most parents who aren't Catholic, CofE etc wouldn't want their children to attend a faith school anyway, so what exactly are they missing out on by these schools having such "unfair" criteria?

SolidGoldBrass Sat 30-Jan-16 15:28:40

The idea that faith schools are 'better' is a bit of a myth, actually. I work in education and have had dealings with quite a lot of faith schools that are bloody awful (not my opinion, these are schools that Ofsted has either rated Requiring Improvement or put in special measures).
The fact that some faith schools are percieved as better is often down to them being able to select their pupils and only take the ones with ambitious parents who are prepared to tell lies/move house/push hard to get their choice of schools, and weed out the pupils from disadvantaged/disengaged families.

As to 'what has being Catholic got to do with health'? - what has it got to do with education? It would be just as logical for schools to get additional taxpayer funding if they accepted/rejected children according to what football team their parents support.

(I am aware that in Glasgow there is fuck all difference in many cases...)

LentilStew Sat 30-Jan-16 15:31:19

We are Catholic.
Never in a million years would I send my children to a Catholic school. I do not believe in faith schools at all, whatever that faith.
Faith teaching should be confined to church and home. School is about socialisation. The idea that my young children should only be educated with other Catholics is ridiculous. At school they learn about all faith and none and crucially, they mix with other children of many faiths and none. They understand that their belief system is their believe system rather than spending their formative years believing that their belief system is the belief system. Of course, as practising Catholics we do believe that to an extent but we are consenting adults able to weigh everything up.

So, YABU imvho

0phelia Sat 30-Jan-16 15:32:03

Religion has no place in schooling. It is a humongous misallocation of resources.
In France, religious iconography is banned from all schools and I daresay their society is far more equal from the outcome.

timemaychangeme Sat 30-Jan-16 15:33:13

I don't believe faith and schooling belong together. If you want children to learn about the religion they belong to them Sunday school, after school classes, teaching them about it at home and in temple/church/synagogue/mosque etc are appropriate settings.

KathyBeale Sat 30-Jan-16 15:35:17

There is a lovely RC school near me. My children are also lovely. The RC school doesn't want my lovely children because I am not catholic. I find that v odd. And yes, unfair.

I think if you want a faith school for your kids that's absolutely fine. But do not ask everyone else to pay for it.

0phelia Sat 30-Jan-16 15:35:22

We now have the atrocious situation with "Freeschools" (Thank you T Blair) which greatly enable extremist religious teachings to go on. Schools should be schools. Churches should be churches. They need to be separate entities for humanity's sake.

GingerNutRiskIt Sat 30-Jan-16 15:35:23

The only think I would slate about faith schools is that they teach that the world is 6000 years old.

Jenga123 Sat 30-Jan-16 15:35:38

I don't think I or my children deserve special treatment. It just so happenes that my dd's primary and secondary are both rated outstanding and have an amazing reputation, results etc however if they weren't top of the leader boards I'd still have chosen to send them there as they have amazing teachers, good morals and results and reports aside they really care about the kids who go there. I think that people only have a bee in their bonnet because most faith schools tend to be the best schools in the country (independent aside) so they get on their high horses claiming that their children are missing out, but if they aren't Catholic, CofE etc then how are their kids missing out, why would they want their kids educated in a faith they do not believe in? And for that matter I wonder how many parents would protest so much about the faith school system being unfair, claiming their children are missing out if the majority of them were failing schools, rated needs improvement and had dire results? I bet that no one would even raise an eyebrow then.

BertrandRussell Sat 30-Jan-16 15:37:00

Jenga. Parents with faith have a choice of a 3rd more schools than par nuts without faith.

However, if your point- that non faith parents wouldn't want to go to faith schools - is right, can we assume that parents of faith wouldn't want to go to non faith schools? That's fair, isn't it? You can have the 33% of schools that are faith based, the rest of us have the others.

BertrandRussell Sat 30-Jan-16 15:38:07

"The only thing I would slate about faith schools is that they teach that the world is 6000 years old."

No they don't.

LentilStew Sat 30-Jan-16 15:40:18

Bertrand,that's exactly what I said in my post (that I wouldn't want my children attending a faith school despite U.S. Being Catholic)

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