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Aibu to get cross that the more advanced children never get 121 help in state schools?

(104 Posts)
arethereanyleftatall Tue 26-Jan-16 22:40:19

I volunteer at my dcs school, listening to children read.
I always listen to the less able pupils.
Outside the classrooms there is always 121 help going on, either with the assistant teacher or another parent volunteer, always always with the less able pupils.
I have been in to the schools hundreds of times, and I have never once seen any of the children who are doing really well, getting extra help.
I get that I should be grateful that my dc don't need the extra help, I get that the class will move forward as a group faster if the less able can keep up, I get that done dc don't get help at all at home, etc etc
But I just wish that sometimes, just once, the kids who are doing well get pushed on.

UndramaticPause Tue 26-Jan-16 22:41:24

Yabu. I have an extremely able dc who is taught away from class for maths and English by a higher level TA. It does happen.

Hiddlesnake Tue 26-Jan-16 22:42:18

Kids who do well ARE "pushed on".
All class work is differentiated and should challenge pupils.

arethereanyleftatall Tue 26-Jan-16 22:44:18

Really? In a state school? I'm jealous! I had wondered if how our school operates is the same as most.

Twowrongsdontmakearight Tue 26-Jan-16 22:44:41

DS and a small group used to be taken out for advanced maths in years 5-6, so it can happen. But I agree normally resources are spent in trying to bring the less able up rather than stretch the most able. YANBU in wanting all special needs to be addressed.

Imustgodowntotheseaagain Tue 26-Jan-16 22:45:46

YANBU. Some schools don't like to extend or stretch bright pupils.

LindyHemming Tue 26-Jan-16 22:46:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IguanaTail Tue 26-Jan-16 22:46:43

I don't think being taught away from the main class is an especially good deal to be honest. Targeted specific assistance with a difficult concept yes, additional phonics (for example) in a small group, yes, but in terms of value for money and progress, kids are far better off in the classroom and getting high quality feedback.

Inertia Tue 26-Jan-16 22:47:20

They are 'pushed on'. All learning has to be differentiated on an individual basis. More able children don't necessarily need one-to-one support to move on though- they could be given a challenging task and some guidance, and enabled to work it out for themselves. You haven't recognised the more able children being challenged and pushed- that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

WhoTheFuckIsSimon Tue 26-Jan-16 22:47:50

It can happen.

When dd was in year six they had a sixth former from the local Grammar come to do 121 for a very advanced boy for maths, just once a week.

My nephew at primary school does his maths lessons with the year above.

But a lot of the time able kids if given the extra work to do can push themselves without needing someone sat by them helping them.

Anomaly Tue 26-Jan-16 22:48:14

Do you think the only way to push children is help from a TA? When planning lessons you're expected to include work to stretch the more able. In addition my school will select more able students for STEM projects or similar.

ciabattav0nbreadstickz Tue 26-Jan-16 22:48:29

I'm sorry but YABU. If you had a child that needed extra help just to even compare to the NT children you wouldn't complain, you would celebrate every tiny achievement just like we do.

My DS is 8 and still in nappies but has just learnt to speak in, albeit very limited, sentances. Be grateful that your child is more able without the extra help.

Brokenbiscuit Tue 26-Jan-16 22:48:48

My dd had had loads of 1:1 and G&T work in small groups over the years. Sometimes with a TA and sometimes with the Deputy Head, who is also the G&T Co-ordinator. I feel that she is always being helped and encouraged to fulfil her potential. She is at a state primary.

I'm very happy that she gets extra help and attention, but if resources were tight, I would fully expect the school to prioritise the kids who were struggling with the basics. I think it would be wrong for them to do otherwise. My dd is already lucky that she finds the academic stuff easy.

YouTheCat Tue 26-Jan-16 22:49:36

Schools have often had to seriously fight for extra funding for less able pupils so why should that then be spent on children who are able to access the curriculum independently?

More able children are often taken out in groups to extend their learning.

You'd be singing from a different hymn sheet if it was your child who needed some extra help.

arethereanyleftatall Tue 26-Jan-16 22:49:54

That's a good point inertia. I guess they don't require the 121 because they can concentrate in their groups.

UndramaticPause Tue 26-Jan-16 22:51:01

Yes. Our school was marked down for not stretching it's gifted pupils by ofsted

Lo and behold the next term all the g&t kids get loads more tuition and extension work

arethereanyleftatall Tue 26-Jan-16 22:51:35

Good point anomoly - I think I'm guilty of stamping my foot without thinking it through.

IguanaTail Tue 26-Jan-16 22:51:45

If they are making the right progress then they don't need additional intervention. If they are not, then they do, regardless of ability. But this doesn't usually take the form of 1:1 TAs.

ReallyTired Tue 26-Jan-16 22:54:32


Some Sen children are also gifted and talented.

My daughter is more able and had no need of one to one help. All she requires is a calm orderly environment to work in. Her school uses improvement marking so she knows her next steps. If the Sen children did not get lots of ta time then my daughter's classroom would be bedlam. The one to one support for the Sen child is indirectly helping my child get an education.

With the nhs no one complains that disabled/ sick children get more resources. Why should all children get equal levels of attention in the classroom? Some children are more needy.

arethereanyleftatall Tue 26-Jan-16 22:54:54

Ciabatta - I'm sorry, I should have clarified - I don't deny at all sn children their extra help.

Lurkedforever1 Tue 26-Jan-16 22:55:14

Yanbu as a general observation, able provision sucks. Some schools and teachers excepted. But I do think reading is one area able children just don't need 1-2-1 anywhere near as much, assuming they're reading independently.

UndramaticPause Tue 26-Jan-16 22:56:50

I am of the opinion that intelligence is an sen in its own right and schools don't know how to handle truly exceptional children half the time

arethereanyleftatall Tue 26-Jan-16 22:57:48

I'm glad I started this thread. I've been put right! Thanks all. I'll go in to do my reading tomorrow with a smile.

simpson Tue 26-Jan-16 22:58:07

In my DC school the more able in maths are taken out from yr5 onwards. DS is in yr6 and taken out with the top group (around 18 kids - but lately the top 4 of which he is included, have been doing different work to the rest of the top group to push/extend them).

DD is in yr3 and is taken out for G&T literacy.

Tbh as Inertia said, I would rather my DC concentrate on working with less support (independently). Also both kids are happy and challenged within the classroom (as far as I know, neither DC have any complaints!)

liinyo Tue 26-Jan-16 23:00:06

This really used to bug me as my DDs were both clever girls who were pretty much ignored in class because the schools were confident they would both reach the required KS levels. I worked in education at the time so I knew the schools were neglecting their obligation to gifted and talented pupils, but I am a big sap so never argued my case.

Roll on a few years and both girls are doing well. One has graduated and is working in a top accountancy firm. The other is midway through a degree at a great uni. They are both motivated self starters and stand out well in a sea of public school boys. It seems that benign neglect at school has made them more independent and free thinking that other more cosseted students.

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