As grammar is being discussed, this is the new Yr 6 SPAG test

[katmanwho]

AIBU to use Google to answer half of them!!

Good luck

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/439299/Sample_ks2_EnglishGPS_paper1_questions.pdf

[TheSkiingGardener]

Are there some instructions missing?

[katmanwho]

You don't need instructions. Maybe KS2 SPAG lessons?

[AnthonyBlanche]

Not exactly difficult for an adult, very basic grammar questions.

[RealHuman]

I think I can answer them, but it seems incredibly tricky for year six!

[UndramaticPause]

They're easier than the local 11+ questions.

[exLtEveDallas]

Yeah, instructions are missing. Pretty sure that DD did this one at school, the facing pages give instructions on what to do.

[BetweenTwoLungs]

Anthony are you looking at the same thing as me? I can't see why a 10/11 year old needs to know what a relative clause is, the difference between a sub-ordinating and a co-ordinating conjunction and be able to identify the past perfect tense. And I don't think that most adults would be able to either.

I'm a y6 teacher and this test makes me angry. The time I spend teaching this stuff could be used so much more effectively when the children are so young. It's not necessary.

[AgentProvocateur]

What age is year 6? I'd expect a 10 year old to be able to do most of this.

[UndramaticPause]

Y6 is 10/11

[foragogo]

My y6 DS could have a reasonable stab at most of those and that is about the level of the grammar component of the grammar school and independent school entrance exams round here.

[KittyandTeal]

Is it me or are some of the multi choice all missing a full stop?

I bloody hate spag, this is why I'd rather teach phonics any day!

[foragogo]

You saying thats right or wrong btw, just thatbit seems inline with wnat my y6 DS is expected to be able to do. Yes to the 11+ being harder, as well, which I do thibk is a bit much, but the schools are full.

[UndramaticPause]

What I resent is our school spends from after Christmas until these bloody tests are sat preparing the kids for them. My dc is bored rigid

[UndramaticPause]

They sit them in May I think

[katmanwho]

I'd expect a 10 year old to be able to do most of this

Really?

preposition phrase?
relative clause?
Q28 - with hyphens, dashes etc
Past progressive tense?
Subordinating conjuction
co-ordinating conjuction
subjunctive form?
Present perfect tense?

[ArmchairTraveller]

' that is about the level of the grammar component of the grammar school and independent school entrance exams round here.'

Yes. Not the average 10 year old then. I'd set it as homework for all the parents and see what happened.

[foragogo]

Oh I see, are these replacing SATs and therefore going to be given to all y6 children? They better hope the English teaching has been v v good up until y6 then I suppose.

[RealHuman]

It would've made learning languages easier for me if this had been covered at junior school, but it needs to be taught from the beginning of primary, as dumping all this suddenly on y6 and making them do tedious revision is just daft. Also, a lot of this stuff is picked up heuristically by reading widely, getting back plenty of marked writing and rewriting it etc. - what strikes me here is the amount of quite technical linguistic terminology they're expected to know.

[TeenAndTween]

I agree with Between .

Great to learn good grammar at primary, but the level of detail they are asking of y6 kids is over the top and unnecessary.

You need to know basics, especially to be confident with terminology for progressing with MFLs, but subordinating conjunctions v coordinating ones? Is that really something that is so important it needs to be learned age 10?

I consider myself well educated, and able to write good coherent English. Yet I keep having to look up details to help my y6 DC.

They may be easier than 11+, but that's not the point is it? For 11+ people tutor for ages. And most kids do not go to grammar or independent school.

There are far more useful things my DC's teacher could be teaching.

[TeenAndTween]

what strikes me here is the amount of quite technical linguistic terminology they're expected to know

Exactly. Pointless.

[TeenAndTween]

Oh and Real they are now learning more from the start of primary. It is just that this year 6 cohort only had from the start of y5, so instead of a gradual build up it is all being crammed in.

[UndramaticPause]

Not everyone tutors for 11+, we didn't do anything more than exam practice and I know plenty of others who did the same. My dc sat and passed the 11+ on the knowledge they acquired through school, a state school I should add, so they are being taught this stuff.

[BoboChic]

Children need to have mastered the level of grammar tested in the link in the OP before embarking on the study of MFL.

[HPsauciness]

You do not need to know all of this to get into grammar school! My dd goes to a super-selective and their tests are not based on this type of stuff (which you can drill if you start early enough) but more on verbal/non-verbal thinking (e.g. spotting patterns in shapes and language), creative writing and so forth.

I agree that a good understanding of language structure is helpful for learning languages, but as others have said, if that's the case, they need to start this very early on in primary, as it takes a while to build up this type of knowledge.

I don't think it's realistic for many children to be scoring well on this test though- yes, the bright ones will, just as they do well in the ridiculously hard spellings now having to be covered, which again most adults in the population fail. All that happens is that the minority of bright kids get good grades, the majority don't and just carry on into secondary with really quite poor literacy and grammar because they didn't 'get' it in the way that the government laid out or on that timetable. It doesn't actually change base levels of knowledge if you set things to be really difficult so that only a minority do well!