Sister police caution, aibu... Sn(109 Posts)
Sisters has autism,LDs, hearing loss and other difficulties. She was however volunteering in nurseries at lunch and it was going well...I've been moaning for a while that she's stopped as she's become quite directionless again. She loves kids, never an issue how she reacts to them and they like her. Plays with them, however I see how workmates find her wearing.
Found out finally what happened.
Picked up days at at a new nursery , immediate clashes with certain staff being irritated with her. She's like a big kid. Soon after items started been stolen, sis was accused a few times. After a big row the manager set up a sting, phone on tablet and web cam.
Sis stupidly came in the office angry and picked it up. Before she even left police were called.
It was quickly established from times it was impossible any other thefts were her. For most she was volunteering elsewhere.
She says she thought she may as well steal as they thought she was a thief, but swears she only planned to hide it. She hid it in the toilets where she showed police. They took her to the station, she was there until late and duty solicitor told her to accept caution. She called no one and walked six miles home.
Aibu to be livid?
1. Nursery know the level she functions at, supported accommodation and iq under 70 as well as big communication issues. Can't for example be trusted to turn taps or has off and struggles with roads. Like a stubborn 8 year old in the situation they created for her
2. At police, she's vulnerable. They didn't call me or her sw or check how she got home
3 she's never stolen before, the situation was created in which her poor logic was used
Upshot is with theft from work in an enhanced crb she now is wanted nowhere.
Surely the police should have called an appropriate adult?
I don't mean to sound awful but it doesn't sound like she should be volunteering there.
I understand that she enjoys being there but if she hid something valuable just because she felt suspicion was on her, she really isn't showing herself to be trustworthy. It's hard to know how else the nursery could respond.
Could she volunteer elsewhere instead? She may not be able to volunteer with children with a police caution but if she understands and can explain why she responded that way it might not be a barrier to future volunteering. My DH has a few cautions which show up on a DBS (CRB doesn't exist any more) but when he was asked, he was just honest about what happened and explained he'd learned his lesson.
She's independent enough to be out and about, and an adult...yet it's bloody obvious talking to her where she's operating. You'd think so
Your dh probably can explain, dsis is not capable.
Why didn't the nursery or even the police call anyone? Surely the nursery at least knew of her situation and should have called you. However I don't think working at nurseries or with children are suitable for her.
Omg i would be hiring a new solicitor and challenging the whole thing! How can this be allowed to stand if she is a vulnerable person? Surely she wont have known what she was accepting?
She's only feeding toddlers in a busy room, not unsupervised or teaching. She's kind and gentle with everyone, just simple really. Should she really be kept away from kids? She's lovely to mine, just obviously not alone.
She's still doesn't understand it now I've explained
Also she's not working, she's just helping. She's not going to get a paid role
I'd get a solicitor involved as I'm not sure the caution can reasonably stand if she didn't know what she was signing, or the implications of it.
Seriously, as others have said, the police are in trouble, as is the solicitor, she has a learning difficulty and should have had an appropriate adult at all times. Challenge it.
I'm not sure it matters whether she gets paid or not.
She's proven herself to be untrustworthy. I guess that's how other nurseries might see it.
I want to, I've just heard. I'm in shock really. It happened in august
I would be furious too. She doesn't have the capacity to agree to a caution! Id be complaining.
But she did know that it was wrong to take something that didn't belong to her so I'm not sure where you think the police went wrong with the caution?
I'm not sure where you think the police went wrong with the caution?
They went wrong by not having an appropriate adult present with a vulnerable adult before proceeding with an interview and caution. There is no chance they didnt know this.
Soon after items started been stolen, sis was accused a few times. After a big row the manager set up a sting, phone on tablet and web cam.
Regardless of whether she stole or not that is disgusting behaviour!!! The nursery are in the wrong doing this.They sound like they were out to basically get rid of her.
As for the police, also awful. As a vunerable person she should have had someone with her. Outraggeous. Definetly take it further.
I mean getting a webcam on her set up, is that even legal?
That's really horrible OP and I feel for you. I second those who suggest seeking legal advice to try to get the caution expunged as it isn't remotely acceptable that a vulnerable adult was questioned without a RA there or any kind of legal counsel (for which she probably still would have needed a RA - I'm guessing you? - there to help decode stuff for her).
Bloody shitty of them to have set up a sting - why not just have spoken to her/you first and asked outright? With the mental age you mention, it's pretty likely that she would have just fessed up had she done it and if you felt she hadn't done but was under suspicion then you could have removed her from the situation before she was entrapped.
Am slightly raging on your behalf TBH. Good luck with it all.
OP, please don't take this badly, I just want to be clear.
How would the police know that she was vulnerable? You say she's all right to be out and about alone and to volunteer, so it may that she did not appear vulnerable to police?
I would agree the caution should be voided because she could not know what she was agreeing to.
She knows stealing is wrong yes, but in her logic hiding it is different. She was neither going to use or sell it. It was only stuffed between nappies.
It was an artificial situation where a whole lot was going on. Probably proving she wasn't too stupid to do it! Never, even at school, did she do similar. She was in a bad place and lashed out. I thought she left because of the piss taking
They must do all of these things seemingly before setting up CCTV.It sounds that they have been unlawful in doing what they have done:
Therefore when Employers set up monitoring systems they must (to ensure the monitoring is legal):
Carry out an ‘impact assessment’ to justify the use of CCTV/monitoring – which identifies the purpose behind the monitoring and likely benefits and adverse impacts; alternative ways in which the purpose might be achieved; the obligations that will arise from monitoring e.g. notifying employees, managing data, subject access requests (SAR) by staff; whether the decision is justifiable (compared to the adverse effects the employees may experience).
Tell staff the nature, extent and reason for the monitoring that may take place. Staff do not lose their right to personal privacy when they walk through their Employer’s doors and this must be balanced with the Employers right to ensure their employees are not engaging in misconduct.
Ensure the monitoring is related to the business and the equipment being monitored is partly or wholly provided for work.
Be clear what levels of privacy an employee can or cannot expect when using their employer’s systems to make personal communications and when using restrooms or break areas.
Provide an unrecorded telephone line for employees to use in emergencies if all other telephones are routinely recorded/monitored.
Be clear what levels of email/internet/phone usage by the employee for personal reasons is permitted and what is not
Provide written policy statements about the monitoring
Explain how the employer will use the information obtained via monitoring. An employee may be aware that CCTV cameras exist, for example, but thie will not justify an Employer using CCTV footage in a disciplinary procss if the employee was never told the footage could be used for that purpose. For example – an employee is entitled to assume the CCTV will be used for security purposes only unless they are told otherwise.
Ensure those involved in the monitoring are aware of their confidentiality obligations.
Explain how the information will be stored and processed in accordance with the Data Protection Act, and who has access to this information.
Allow employees to voice any concerns they have, in confidence, and ensure they are given the chance to explain or challenge any footage used as part of a disciplinary process. Employers, however, are not required to get consent from the employees to monitor them if the above steps have been carried out.
Her speech is slurred, holds her head at an angle to focus, clumsy in extreme, stilted talk... Kids notice she's different! They would know!
Sorry but it doesn't sound like your I sister is an appropriate person to be volunteering at nurseries. They have strict rules on numbers and ratios and your sister sounds like she is making it more difficult rather than helping. When I sent my dd to nursery I expected the staff to be caring for the children not monitoring an adult.
It is very unfortunate the police didn't call an adult but could they have misunderstood the situation due to your sister holding a trusted position to begin with?
At one of my first jobs my employer worked with an organization to give adults like your sister a part time job. In effect I had to do the job of two people and found it very difficult. The poor chap they hired was lovely but would make a million mistakes I would have to fix and it was very unfair to the other workers. My employers wouldn't hear a word of it as they wanted to seem inclusive
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