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BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 19:41:51

Sorry this is long but I need to give background ...

Dds are 6 and almost 4. We DO disciple one them - we use time outs , take away screen time etc . But ...

They do not listen to me or respect me. The eldest even tells me that she doesn't have to do as I ask if she doesn't want to .

I collected her from school today - a rare treat as normally she goes to after school club .

From the minute she realised I hadn't brought her a snack , she was rude to me , refused to talk to me about her day - I just got eye rolling and one line shouty replies .

If I ask her to do simple tasks, she growls in my face in anger , says no and stamps her feet .

The youngest has regular tantrums . She also demands that I or daddy do things for her - if I'm free to help her and daddy is busy , she will demand daddy help her and refuse me . She will throw herself on the floor and kick and scream .

I've had enough . Sometimes the demands and tantrums start from 5:30am .

Tonight I called eldest for teeth brushing , she came then decided she needed to go get something from downstairs . I said she could wait until after teeth , she ignored me and went anyway !

She then refused to brush her teeth so I told her to go to her room - she refused so I had to carry her in whilst she was laughing and clinging to the door .

Youngest then went in to her room and started having a tantrum because I wasn't immediately free (DH went to her ).

She started kicking her furniture (she does this often ).

So I told them both no story before sleep tonight .

Youngest is currently having an epic tantrum and is crying her eyes out for a story . I'm ready to cave .

I told eldest no faffing with soft toys before bed (she did this last night and didn't go to sleep til late - I didn't realise as she was quiet).

She asked me to dress one of her barbie dolls she keeps near her bed . I said no it's sleep time and we will do it in the morning . I told her to put it away .

After dealing with the youngest again , I went back to eldest's room who was sitting dressing the bloody barbie !

So I took it and put it away myself . I told her not to ignore me and left the room .

She then got out of bed and retrieved the doll to take back to bed !

So again , I took it and put it away explaining she can have it back in the morning . I have left her with her favourite bears and barbies she has on a shelf next to her .

Well she has gone ballistic ! She is screaming , crying , telling me it's her favourite one (I don't think it is ) . She is sobbing . More screaming . Refusing to settle .

I've tried to comfort her , she shouts at me more . I've ignored her and she's still going .

I feel bad . Really bad . But I need to follow through don't I ?

She rarely gets this upset .

What should I do ?

I am really doubting myself here so please be gentle !

SecretSpy Tue 12-Jan-16 19:47:48

You might want to get this moved to the behaviour and development topic.

A lot of it sounds like usual after school grumpiness tbh but I get the feeling you are taking it very personally?

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 19:50:51

Hi secret I haven't taken it personally as I get she's tired - it was the whole rudeness of her speaking to me .

Shouting at me rather than talking .

CaptainCrunch Tue 12-Jan-16 19:52:38

Playing quietly with soft toys isn't bad behaviour and denying a bedtime story as punishment is totally counter productive, you want them settled and feeling secure at bedtime.

When dc are rude to you firmly tell them you will not be spoken to that way.

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 19:55:30

I know the playing with soft toys is not bad behaviour - it's the ignoring my requests to put things away or do as she is asked that I was punishing .

She just did what she wanted anyway .

Maybe I messed up with the removal of the story sad . I just needed an immediate consequence and this was the only thing I thought of .

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 19:55:58

I do tell them not to speak to me that way . She doesn't care and carries on.

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 19:56:49

I kept going in to give hugs and settle them .

70isaLimitNotaTarget Tue 12-Jan-16 19:58:06

Where is she getting the "I don't have to llisten to you/do as you tell me"

What TV programmes does she watch (I know my DC used to 'copy' some antics until I realised and banned the programmes. Ben from Outnumbered and Sam from iCarly were two particular ones but when my DC were much older)

What is she like at school?

I'd be sorely tempted to remove the dolls/bears from her room and let her take one if she does her night time routine as asked.

And my DC still remember me saying "I'm your Mother not one of your school friends, you talk to me properly . " They are teens now.

Snowglobe1 Tue 12-Jan-16 19:59:30

Firstly, do not cave. Ever.So much worse in the long run. Pick your battles. Maybe she can play with soft toys if she stays in bed quietly?

Harder consequences. If I'd specifically told mine not to play with that Barbie, that Barbie would have been placed out of reach for a week if they'd ignored me.

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 19:59:57

Most of the Tv programmes are CBeebies . She does have some friends who are a more mature than her so maybe it's come from there?

At school she's an angel confused

SecretSpy Tue 12-Jan-16 20:01:49

I agree with pp about the story.

They are exploring and pushing boundaries, I also discipline but I don't take away a bedtime story, you don't want to effectively be withdrawing love.

Why were they supposed to see being collected as a treat? It may well have been a treat for you rather than a treat for them.

A lot of the time children this age seem to be ungrateful little scrotes. Take us for granted. We're mostly wallpaper to them. And tbh I think they should be able to take a story for granted.

Teeth, typical delaying bedtime tactic. Factor in extra time, it will carry on happening. Then it's a wee. Another drink of water. Don't be surprised by it, it's what they do.

It is infuriating at times.

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 20:01:54

I did leave her with her favourite soft toys but she wanted this one specific barbie that I had removed because she completely ignored my request not to dress it now and put it away.

She needs her sleep as she has to be up early in the mornings so I aim to get her settled for 7pm .

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 20:02:53

Sorry secret it wasn't clear in my op , the picking her up was a treat for me blush

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 20:04:04

I feel really shit about the story now sad

Why can I never get this right . Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I did what I thought was best at the time .

SecretSpy Tue 12-Jan-16 20:07:31

You've had a shit day. It happens.

WE ARE ALL MAKING IT UP AS WE GO.

Remember that. Next time you might try something different and feel better about it.

Crabbitface Tue 12-Jan-16 20:08:33

Have you tried House Rules. Get them together with a big sheet of paper and a marker and establish what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour. I know some people don't like them, but we have found reward systems helpful. If kids stick to house rules they get some marble. If they go above and beyond they get two. We set a target together and if they reach it by the following Friday they can choose from a list of privileges e.g.. extra tv time, a comic. We also try to model how we wasn't them to behave. Sometimes exaggerating slight issues to demonstrate appropriate responses like telling someone about your feelings or apologising. I totally understand your feelings of helplessness just now. Positive reinforcement of good behaviour I'd always good and try to remind yourself to pick your battles wisely. Good luck.
'

suitcaseofdreams Tue 12-Jan-16 20:09:28

This all sounds very familiar to me (I have nearly 5yr old twins....)

I am having some success with star charts for encouraging good behaviour but they need constant reminding/pushing to earn the stars

At school/childminder they are apparently very well behaved - I find myself wondering if they work so hard at 'being good' all day that they go a bit crazy when they are back at home where they feel they can relax with me - it's infuriating though..

Apart from the star charts I'm trying to be really consistent with boundaries, picking my battles and sticking to what I threaten (taking away much loved Lego for poor behaviour/rudeness is proving relatively effective)

But I don't think I, or anyone else, has the answer I'm afraid, it's a tough age/stage when they are so challenging - I just keep reminding myself "this too shall pass" (fingers firmly crossed!)

SecretSpy Tue 12-Jan-16 20:09:30

And she doesn't have to 'be an angel ' with you, because you're her mum and you love her no matter what. I've got the 8yo model smile

BetsyMalone Tue 12-Jan-16 20:09:59

What would you have done in that situation?

(Genuine question - I need tips ! )

omri Tue 12-Jan-16 20:14:44

Betsy - have a cup of tea in the kitchen with the door closed. Sounds like you are fed up and need a well deserved break. I am watching with interest as my ds has started playing up like this in past couple of months. It is so so infuriating. My wise old mum said a while ago that you need to make sure they grow out of this behaviour, not grow into it. So try to be consistent with the discipline. And this too shall pass....

I find the more tired I am, the shorter my fuse and can easily turn into a shouty mum blush
however I do find that if I do my best to rise above it, stay calm, get down to their level (physically) and speak in a calm loving way and offer a big cuddle, then they calm down themselves and are much more compliant.

But poor you... Feel your pain. You're not alone. brewthankschocolate

Genx77 Tue 12-Jan-16 20:15:00

It doesn't sound like 'normal' behaviour to me. It sounds extremely stressful! My first thoughts are that they sound tired, what are their days like? How do they sleep? Is dad on the scene to help out and present a united front?

SecretSpy Tue 12-Jan-16 20:15:33

Swear a lot in my head. Do my best to ignore as much as I can and do the broken record thing, teeth, now. Don't make unrealistic threats or punishments that punish you more than them (no tablet for a week!) in the heat of the moment.

Expect it to take far too long grin

Make sure they have a chance to play /read whatever before bedtime.

MsMargaretCarter Tue 12-Jan-16 20:16:22

Totally agree with secretspy

My 5 year old can get like this sometimes, and my 9 year old used to do similar. I ignore and stand firm and have got better at this over the years (and have removed stories in desperation too, though I know it is not ideal).

I always drop in a little gentle reminder of what happened the next day when they are being calm and do a breezy "it was a bit silly wasn't it, Mummy got quite cross, I am sure you want to behave nicely for me tonight and we will have a lovely story together - now what was that book you really enjoyed" etc etc and I find I usually get a few much better days.

BestZebbie Tue 12-Jan-16 20:20:25

I don't think that this is likely to be the only cause or only solution required, but could they be hungry when they are most angry/rude/shouty?

NeedsAsockamnesty Tue 12-Jan-16 20:24:05

You already get the gist about the story so I won't mention that but how about with some of the stuff like the Barbies incorporating them into bedtime routine.

Get ready for bed and get Barbies to bed, put Barbie to bed then get in yourself, it's a useful way of changing a battle into something plesant

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