to be shocked, but not surprised at the latest twist in the Universal Credit wheeze

[echt]

So those who will be worse off under the new system, can just roll up their sleeves and get on with it:

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/21/universal-credit-benefit-cuts-work-allowance

[Amazemedontbeacunt]

Yeah, just find an extra 4 hours week work and arrange childcare and transport and whatever else to do them. Easy. I don't know what all the fuss is about.

they don't live in the real world do they!

[notquitehuman]

My over squeezed department is just DYING to give each employee four extra hours a week and pay us accordingly. For each ten employees, that'd be the cost of an extra member of staff, and there are like 200 people in the company. But I'm sure they'll find the money from somewhere.

[ChristmasBeary]

I'm self-employed as a childminder and working at maximum capacity with no vacancies. There aren't four additional hours a week available unless I breech Ofsted rules on ratios.

DH works in the public sector, they won't increase his hours because it's a waste of taxpayer funds. ..

[DyslexicScientist]

Something has to change. The in work benefits system is getting out of control, encouraging people to work less hours and have more children.

I know someone who's dh left a well paid job recently, to deliver pizzas twice a week as he will earn the same as a full time job with in work benefits.

[DyslexicScientist]

At my work we've had to employ lots of expensive agency workers for 2-3 months as many of the part timers wouldn't up their hours as would mess up their benefits. That can't be right.

[harshbuttrue1980]

I agree with Dyslexic. Benefits shouldn't be something that people plan to claim - "oh, we can have another child and I'll cut down to 16 hours a week and the government will top up my earnings". I'm a supporter of the welfare state in its original form - when it was designed, it was meant to be a safety net for those who are in dire need, not a lifestyle choice that people plan to claim for years and years. People need to take some responsibility for things like - where can I live that is affordable? Should I retrain or enter a new, better paid type of work by retraining? How many children can I really afford? etc.

I would never, ever vote to cut welfare payments for the needy e.g. the sick, the disabled, and the people who genuinely can't find work and urgently need help. I do find it ridiculous though that people plan their lives around what handouts they can claim.

[PinkHairExtension]

And the people who already live in the shittiest cheapest areas?

[PinkHairExtension]

Or can't afford retraining?

[Movingonmymind]

Also agree with dyslexic! Benefits as a safety net not a long-term support apart from for the v needy.
There are loans- invest in yourself to get future payback, i've done it as have thousands of others.

[abbsismyhero]

the point is the cost of living is too high whether you have kids or not

[youmustbekidding]

That's the crux of it isn't it - that we have become a low wage economy with a high cost of living. Until that is tackled, particularly in regard to the massive misfit between wages and housing costs, then everything else is tinkering that will hammer those on low wages and make fuck all difference to anything in macro-economic terms.

[PinkHairExtension]

Loans

Yes, they hand loans out to everybody, don't they? Especially people on low incomes who can't afford the repayments or have debts to the eyeballs from basic living.

[rosebiggs]

For people who are only able to work while their kids are in school (to avoid spending what you earn on childcare), 4 hours is roughly equivalent to the amount that you could work in one day.
That's if you don't have far to travel obviously.
So the Tories simply need to create an 8 day week.

[abbsismyhero]

the other point is that you look around and find an area in need for retraining then you get the loan and you retrain unfortunately everyone else has the same bright idea and you end up qualified for an industry with loads of competition do you move area (again) do you stick it out and hope what do you do?

sometimes you end up in a situation where you are paralyzed by fear of failure you have children relying on you for food and shelter maybe you're a single parent with no family support not many friends etc etc you sign on and they keep pushing you to apply for jobs there are none you can actually do you ask them about retraining but its not there area you just need to get a job and everyone keeps pushing and pushing get a job dole dosser slag unwanted if you have more than one child you have had "more pricks than a second hand dartboard" and they push and push and push again get a fucking job don't have more kids than you can afford it doesn't matter if you had the kids when you were working/married had support your still wrong for having them and still people push you because you're never good enough

[Enjolrass]

I always find these threads interesting.

From my point of view the current situation should never have come into being.

2008-2012 I worked in a call centre. We needed more hours filling and offered them to staff. So many wouldn't take the extra hours even though they had a sahp at home because when their benefits were adjusted they would be worse off.

I think you had to work 16 hours then. We decided to recruit agency workers and made most permanent staff.

Then the changes came and (I think) if you were a couple you had to work 24 hours a week between you. The same people were begging for the hours and we had none to give.

I just can't understand why we were in a situation where a 2 adult household (with 2 fit and health adults) were better (or the same) off working 16 hours a week between them.

I can't fathom it now it's 24 hours.

However during this time what's have declined, making the changes harder. I believe we need these changes. But we need other changes first.

[Enjolrass]

And let's be honest...the loan comment is silly.

Me and dh own our own business. I started it with £50 nearly 2 years ago. It now supports us and we both work in the business. We also have 5 staff and are doing really well.

It's taken hard work, good timing and luck.

I can't say 'oh if you can save £50 you can have a successful business in a year'

It doesn't happen for everyone, many businesses fail. Telling people you did it so that can too, is disingenuous.

[Movingonmymind]

I meant a career development loan for a course I was doing. Lots of online courses are now free also!

[mommy2ash]

I think people who haven't been in that situation won't understand. What is the incentive to work when you are better off working less and then getting more money better benefits and more time with your kids. I'm a single parent and work full time on a low wage. My rent takes 50% of my wages every month and I get no help with that. I have lost all secondary benefits and of course invaluable time with my dd. I'm also worse off financially than when I was on benefits by the time I factor in travel, childcare and lost benefits. I can't judge people who do the minimum for most reward.


As for retraining and loans and all that. That would be great if it was accessible and financially possible but it isn't for a lot of people. I can't even afford time off work for interviews for a better job. The chance of not getting it and losing a days pay is too great and not manageable. I try to fit them in when I have annual leave planned and so far have not been able to find better

[YouMakeMyDreams]

All this move to a cheaper area stuff gets on my nerves too it's not always that black and white for a start. Lots of "cheaper areas" are cheap for a reason. Because there is no industry and no jobs so moving to one of them could turn out to be a total waste of time. Saying that is just as ignorant as saying just work 4 more hours a week. If things were that simple more people would do it.
This is just another form of benefit bashing. I don't know all these people that have more kids to get more tax credits or so they can do less hours. And I so often see on here that people should work evenings, take on a second job. Because yep if you're poorer than them you aren't entitled to a home life, to see your spouse or your kids or like even eat or sleep oh no. You should be out earning more.

I'd love to retrain. I did move to a cheaper area when my first marriage broke up because I had to. Childcare wasn't affordable as a lone parent on top of rent and travelling to work so I mo ed closer to my parents where housing is cheaper but jobs are scarcer. I work for much less now than I did and can't afford to retrain right now.

[AutumnLeavesArePretty]

Whilst not perfect it's far better than tax credits. No doing the magic sixteen hours or twenty four between a couple (often one not even working) whilst netting huge amounts in benefits. No need to worry about financing more children as they know someone else will pay.

Society needs to head in a better direction, a self supporting hard workinh one not the state reliant one we have now. There seems to be no shame in living off benefits since you can claim them by choice now.

It will be better for our children, working will be the norm and hopefully the future generation will have less gender gaps in pay and positions as both will have careers/jobs.

[Chattymummyhere]

I wonder what the plan is for salary staff. More hours wouldn't mean more pay it would in fact mean less pay as most salary workers already do over their contracted hours

[starry0ne]

Well according to the papers LP will be worst hit.. Of course It means we need to work an extra 8 hours a day which obviously loads of childcare for..

Before people say so I did have a career as a nurse but as job is shifts...Issues with DS .. no childcare options for shift work I have changed careers for a much less well paid job...

People see things is such simplistic views..

[justgoandgetalife]

PinkHairExtension: of course you can get a loan - at 1500% interest. Easy!

Sadly my sisters final year project at college was entitled "why being poor costs more". Nothing's changed and she left college in 1987.

[winterswan]

I agree it's ultimately a better and fairer system than tax credits.

[expatinscotland]

They'll say get a second job, Chatty, or 'retrain' for a better one.