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To think that radicalisation and home education is a red herring and Nicky Morgan wants an excuse to boss home ed parents about

(102 Posts)
ReallyTired Sun 20-Dec-15 03:24:42

If parents are going to radicalise their children then it will happen regardless whether they attend school or are home educated. Children who attend school still learn about the world from their parents. Lots of children who attend state schools get indoctrinated by their parents.

I feel that the parents of children who have been found attending illegal schools should be barred from home education. Someone whose judgement is so poor to use an unregistered school with a narrow curriculum and lack of health and safety is unfit to become a home educator. Their children certainly need to be kept track of.

Leave true home educators alone. They are not responsible for the troubles in Syria.

ReallyTired Sun 20-Dec-15 03:28:01

The issue of radicalisation is a smoke screen. The few home education families I gave met are not a national threat to security. (Even if one family's dress sense is a fashion crime...)

Nataleejah Sun 20-Dec-15 08:44:29

Yeah, what about all those state(!) schools taken over by hate preachers?

TheWoodenSpoonOfMischief Sun 20-Dec-15 08:46:39

I don't think many people are radicalised by their parents anyway.
It's more likely to be Internet forums and peer culture.

MrsSimonNeil Sun 20-Dec-15 08:53:21

I agree, there have been plenty of documented cases about school children being radicalised but are there any cases for HE children? As a home educator articles like this worry me, I don't want our freedom to choose taken away from us.

Moonatic Sun 20-Dec-15 09:03:11

"Fears have been raised that parents are claiming their children are being home schooled when in fact they are being taught at illegal religious schools."

A moment of thought will explain what all this is about. However, it would be seen as being discriminatory to single out a particular religious group, so the "review" has to be seen to look at home schooling in general.

AuntieStella Sun 20-Dec-15 09:10:27

They're thinking about Khyra Ishaq (though that wasn't about radicalisation) and the risks to children who are removed from sight IFSWIM.

To me, it's different: it's not home education that's the risk. It's isolation.

And abuse by radicalisation is wrong whenever it occurs.

The clampdown on the illegal religious schools (and the abuse of the claim to be home educating) is the right thing to be doing.

The HEdders I know are highly unlikely to be a threat to national security either. But then again, they are educating their children. Not keeping them in deliberate isolation, nor sending them to an illegal 'school'.

glamourousgranny42 Sun 20-Dec-15 09:11:15

Personally I don't see why any education establishment (including homeschooling) shouldn't be inspected in the same way that schools are. We know that in some cases removing children from state schooling is an indicator of some form of abuse or neglect. And before all the HE'S go ballistic I know this is a minority. Just as people who don't engage with medical services may have a unhealthy reason for doing so.

Washediris Sun 20-Dec-15 09:21:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nataleejah Sun 20-Dec-15 09:27:54

Every child deserves a top quality education in every way
Thats the main reason for those who choose home ed. Because they don't want sub-standard schooling for their dc.

Alfieisnoisy Sun 20-Dec-15 09:30:01

My own experience of Home Ed is very limited. However we have a thriving home ed group locally who I joined when it was looking like I would have to home ed DS.

I don't think it's people,like this who need scrutiny...they provide an excellent education for their children and many of them have early GCSEs etc.

It's where children are pulled out of school and educated on the fringes of society that it becomes an issue. Where children are kept home so they can be indoctrinated in religion (Christians can be just as guilty as other religions here) and prevented from mixing with other "worldly" children. These are the kids who are kept isolated from society and who miss out,

This isn't the same as those in my local home ed group for example who have regular meet ups and trips to museums, stately homes, prehistoric and historic sites. Their children are often in advance of similar children in school and get great social opportunities.

You also have to look at the lack of SEN provision in mainstream schools, many simply do not cope with the numbers of children who have SEN that they get. My DS for example, was very nearly home educated because the LEA felt he was too able to special school. It was only when I started talking to home education and taking them to Tribunal that they began to take me seriously....he is now in a special school. I will defend home ed to the hilt though as overwhelmingly it's very good except in rare cases.

Washediris Sun 20-Dec-15 09:36:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

expatinscotland Sun 20-Dec-15 09:39:03

Most people I know who homeschool do so due to bullying.

Nataleejah Sun 20-Dec-15 09:45:18

I know a family who chose home ed because of their lifestyle -- they travel a lot. And given today's regime where a child missing a few lessons equals a crime (heavens forbid they go on a cheaper holiday) -- very right that this family doesn't want a stone tied to their necks.

SisterMoonshine Sun 20-Dec-15 09:52:56

Now that schools have policies in place to monitor signs of radicalisation, of course they will also try to reach those children not in the schools as well.

Where schools do the weighing, measuring of children - do they try and reach homeschooled children too?

theycallmemellojello Sun 20-Dec-15 09:55:34

I find it absolutely outrageous that home educators don't have to inform the local council that they are educating their children at home. There's no reason it should be subject to any less scrutiny than school education, and of course having it being outside of scrutiny leaves children in danger. Most home educators have the best of intentions but (I) that doesn't mean that all do and (II) even people with very good intentions can fail their children.

BabyGanoush Sun 20-Dec-15 09:57:44

I don't think it is invented to use as a stick to beat Home Educators. Why would they?

Rather, allowing HE creates a loophole for those who want their kids to go to extremist Muslim schools.

I cannot be blase about that and think "oh, well, they would be radicalised anyway"

I think those illegal schools have no place here, and turning a blind eye is not the answer.

HE is a great option, but that does not mean abuse of this option should be ignored

BarbarianMum Sun 20-Dec-15 10:00:43

I think HE should be open to scrutiny. I don't think HE should have to be like school but likewise I don't think de-registering your child means that you can shove them on minecraft for 6 years and call it autonomous education is OK.

ComposHatComesBack Sun 20-Dec-15 10:16:46

Most home educators have the best of intentions but (I) that doesn't mean that all do and (II) even people with very good intentions can fail their children.

This. At social services I came across a handful of cases of home education used as a smokescreen for things like u16s working in family businesses or wider neglect and plenty more cases where parents had the best of intentions and had withdrawn children from mainstream schooling for understandable reasons, but were unequipped to deliver a proper education for their children and their education was haphazard at best.

Alfieisnoisy Sun 20-Dec-15 10:50:10

I find it absolutely outrageous that home educators don't have to inform the local council
I think you'll find that they DO have to notify the council. There are template letters you can use on most Home Ed sites.
Councils can and do make enquiries when the child is not in school about how they are beng educated.

theycallmemellojello Sun 20-Dec-15 10:58:00

I think you'll find that they DO have to notify the council. The Independent article above says that there is no obligation - I agree that it does seem unbelievable but how else could there be such a huge margin of error in the estimated number of home-schooled kids? (again, if the article is correct in asserting that "between 20,000 and 50,000 children are thought to be educated at home").

Alfieisnoisy Sun 20-Dec-15 11:02:22

When I moved house from one county to another there was uproar due to some miscommunication. I ended up with EWO knocking on the door as they didn't know how my DS was being educated. He was in a local school and they checked this and went away happy.

As far as I know there is an obligation legally to say how your child is being educated if not in school. I don't know what checks they make as this seems to vary from place to place. In our County (Essex) parents do meet with the LEA at various times to show what their children are doing.

howtorebuild Sun 20-Dec-15 11:07:18


theycallmemellojello Sun 20-Dec-15 11:10:31

Well, yes as long as every child is accounted for and home educators have to be accountable for the education they are providing, are subjected to random inspections in the same way that schools are etc then I think that sounds ok. But it sounds like maybe this system is not being implemented universally, so tightening it up sounds like a sensible move imo.

MyVisionsComeFromSoup Sun 20-Dec-15 11:14:33

if you de-register from a state school, the HT has to inform the local council. What they council then does varies from place to place. The discrepancy in numbers is partly to do with no requirement to report yourself if your DC never enter state education (either by HE from the start or using private school), and partly depending on the motivation of the report writer. If you want to whip up a media frenzy, then you need huge numbers of "unregistered children at risk of x,y and z". If you need to keep your LA budgets or create a job for yourself then again you need hundreds of HE DC.

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