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To agree with Corbyn on response after Paris attacks?

(259 Posts)
Gisforgustywinds Sat 21-Nov-15 13:57:23

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34886321.

I am no expert but surely simply bombing Syria is not going to reduce the likelihood of terrors attacks in the UK?

Also, why not remove those who have travelled to Syria to fight with IS from the UK? Would this even be possible?

batshitlady Sat 21-Nov-15 15:47:52

Of course he's right (Corbyn). Sticking my neck out here, I think the majority of people agree with him.

EnaSharplesHairnet Sat 21-Nov-15 15:54:19

I saw a frontpage that said a poll put it at 60:40 in favour of bombing.

I think a lot of people want something done and there is a debate to be had on what is most likely to be effective.

SlaggyIsland Sat 21-Nov-15 15:55:33

Corbyn is absolutely right. He's right about many things. It seems that having a compassionate, common-sense view of the world will get you pilloried in the media however.

GinandJag Sat 21-Nov-15 15:56:12

Corbin is an idiot regarding this issue. He should listen to his MPs.

tothesideoftheirlives Sat 21-Nov-15 16:00:41

Yes he's right, absolutely right, and yes having a compassionate common-sense view does not go down well with the media.

My DD (16) said "but isn't bombing Syria just going to make more people angry and fill more people with hatred of us and then they are more likely to attack us." which just about summed it up and I agreed wholeheartedly with her.

AskBasil Sat 21-Nov-15 16:01:26

YANBU

We've bombed Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya and what we created was the conditions to give birth to the Taliban, Al Qaeda and ISIS.

Meanwhile our ally Saudi Arabia, continues to export the vicious Wahabi ideology that lies at the base of all these vile beliefs and continues to fund terrorism.

The twats who rule us never fucking learn.

scarlets Sat 21-Nov-15 16:14:54

I'm not left-wing but I agree with JC on this, and with the pp who referred to Saudi's role. I've seen loads of polls that show the public in favour of intervention, though.

batshitlady Sat 21-Nov-15 16:25:01

I disagree totally Ginand . Corbyn is right and what's more, seems to be the only one with courage not to jump on the knee-jerk, populist bandwagon. If you and his MPs think that throwing more bombs around in Syria will sort the problem of mentalist Jihadis here attacking us you're sadly deluded.

Bombing ISIS might make us feel better but, if we ignore the fact NATO is funding and arming these people, and is actually engaged in what amounts to a proxy war with Assad. It will achieve absolutely nothing advantageous to us.

Even allying with Russia to destroy ISIS would require a total reversal of US/NATO policy, not just in the ME, but globally.

Corbyn knows this and knows that all it will do is create more refugees, more anger, and more recruits to IS' twisted cause....

hackmum Sat 21-Nov-15 17:17:24

I'm always morally uncomfortable with the idea of bombing people - which is obviously easy to say from the comfort of my armchair.

Looked at from a coldly pragmatic view, I think bombing is counterproductive in that, yes, it will make us more vulnerable to attack. On the other hand, I think if all the Western countries agreed to bomb ISIS, you would spread the risk, and you would also increase the chances of wiping them out altogether. Perhaps something would spring up to take its place, I don't know. Al Qaeda was severely weakened, after all, and ISIS took their place.

Gisforgustywinds Sat 21-Nov-15 17:19:34

smile. So far a heart-waming aibu thread.

"Corbyn knows this and knows that all it will do is create more refugees, more anger, and more recruits to IS' twisted cause...."

I feel so depressed and worried about this, and I cannot understand why people cannot see the obvious. How can it be that our politicians have not learned from recent history?

Again, why not get rid of (by removing their citizenship) those who we know have travelled to Syria to fight in the name of IS and send them back to Syria. Allegedly there are 800 of them, why not get rid in the first instance? Alternatively, surely they should be sent to prison no?

NewLife4Me Sat 21-Nov-15 17:23:28

YANBU

It hasn't stopped them yet, various countries have been bombing Syria since way before any attacks on the west.
Maybe the Syrian refugees aren't just fleeing IS, but of course it doesn't serve our politician to instruct media reports to inform us of this.

People are waking up and not just believing what they are told anymore.

EnaSharplesHairnet Sat 21-Nov-15 17:24:05

I don't think you can take away citizenship. Which is a pity in the case of jihadists.

JumpandScore Sat 21-Nov-15 17:25:05

I agree that short term, bombing Syria seems only likely to make things worse but OTOH "something" needs to be done.

It is possible (legal?) to deport British citizens? Can you remove citizenship from someone born in UK?

I don't understand the situation in Syria enough to comment really, but why is it "we" get to choose which side is in the right?

stayathomegardener Sat 21-Nov-15 17:24:55

Totally agree with Corbyn.

Ohbehave1 Sat 21-Nov-15 17:25:53

You can't remove the citizenship of someone that was born in the UK.

With regards to the bombing of Syria, I don't think it I'll make much difference. ISIS want the world to be under sharia law, and they will continue to attack the western world because of it. The question is, do we deal with them on an ongoing as and when basis, or try to remove the problem all together.

Finally, now Putin is involved and we are all on the same side I think that ISIS will soon be WasWas.....

JumpandScore Sat 21-Nov-15 17:29:16

Yes, didn't someone else once make the mistake of attacking Russia at the same time as the rest of Europe?

Thymeout Sat 21-Nov-15 17:29:48

You are assuming that ISIS exists to retaliate against the West. And if we don't annoy them, they won't attack us.

It's a lot more complicated than that. Various sections of the Muslim faith are conducting a religious war, and have been for years. Sunni v Shiite and both against the Infidel - i.e. anyone who doesn't believe what they believe. ISIS, in particular, wants to create a religious state, the Caliphate, for which they need territory.Their goal is for the whole world to be under their control.

They attack the West to deter them from interfering. They want us to stand by and watch them massacre people who belong to the 'wrong' religion or sect. Then they will come after us.

What is Corbyn proposing? Sit round a table and talk about it? I think you are seriously underestimating the nature of this threat.

JumpandScore Sat 21-Nov-15 17:32:07

But attacking isn't going to deter the West form interfering. There are small sections who don't want action but the majority do. Attacking us is going to ensure we do interfere.

BaronessSamedi Sat 21-Nov-15 17:34:42

YANBU.
i agree with him on many things, in fact.

could it be that western governments such as britain and france have a vested interest in bombing syria? seeing as they sanction the arms manufacturers who in turn support these governments....

Gisforgustywinds Sat 21-Nov-15 17:37:08

I can see why citizenship cannot be taken away though it's a pitty, however what about individuals with dual citizenship, those who have become British through naturalisation and still hold their birth nationality.

Also, does anyone know if the individuals who have returned to Britain after travelling to Syria have been to court or have been imprisoned? There must be some smart research-based strategies to counter home-grown terrorists, i would have thought hoped.

On a very different note, I do wonder how all of this will shape our views on exiting the EU. I feel that the Paris attacks have highlighted how we are 'stronger together' (sorry sounds a bit cliché).

SlaggyIsland Sat 21-Nov-15 17:37:36

Thymeout apart from Isis and other extremist groups, can you clarify which other Muslim groups are conducting a religious war on the West, and in particular which Shia groups?

JumpandScore Sat 21-Nov-15 17:38:25

What's the alternative? On the basis that "something" must be done. We can't just accept that we'll be attacked, can we? So if not bombing Syria, what other options are there?

Mistigri Sat 21-Nov-15 17:39:08

Of course he's right. While it may be necessary/ desirable to "do something" about ISIS, bombing the shit out of civilians has a poor track record when it comes to providing the answer.

All, or almost all, of the terrorists involved in Paris were homegrown and AFAIK this has consistently been the case in European terrorist attacks.

batshitlady Sat 21-Nov-15 17:46:14

Thymeout No his view is we work to change the idiotic and dangerous policy of regime change that NATO is sicking to, then we unite all forces (that would be Russian, Iranian, Syrian gov't troops, against IS and wipe them out.

This is something no politician has the balls to talk about... More bombing will achieve nothing.

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