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To feel slightly put out at the implication that IVF babies are more precious?

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MNHQ have commented on this thread.

jollyfrenchy Thu 19-Nov-15 11:40:09

As part of a discussion about choking and cutting grapes for small children, one lady said she also wouldn't be giving her daughter raw apple or carrot pieces until she was 5 years old for fear of choking. When she was then told she was being a bit overly paranoid. In response she agreed, but explained it by saying that it took 11 years of trying and 2 rounds of IVF to have her daughter, and she wasn't willing to take any risks at all.

Now, I do understand that sort of experience has an effect on you, but I slightly resent the implication that her child is somehow more precious than others. Kind of like, "Oh well you can afford to take risks, you've got three kids, and anyway, you if you lost one you could always have another. This is the only one I've got and will ever have so I need to look after her more."

Er, no every one of my children is as precious and important as yours, it's just that in life you have to take risks and eating apples is a risk I'm prepared for them to take.

Also surely it's not beneficial to your oh so precious child's well being to wrap them in cotton wool and never take ANY risk with them. In a similar way I know people who had a hard time having their baby or who adopted after years of heartache, who then go on to completely spoil the child (never say no, let them have their own way all the time etc) because they're so grateful to have them. Again, not doing the child any favours really.

CrossfireHurricane Thu 19-Nov-15 11:42:42

My sister always implied that her children were more wanted than mine because she had several miscarriages whilst I didn'tconfused

Jackie0 Thu 19-Nov-15 11:47:13

You're not wrong op, but in that ladies defence long term infertility and ivf can and does make us a bit loopy.
It's hard to explain but it takes away any innocence or naivety and drives home the message that bad things do happen.
Let her get on with it.

TheHouseOnTheLane Thu 19-Nov-15 11:47:23

I read somewhere that more choking incidents take place in older children because people are more relaxed...

howtorebuild Thu 19-Nov-15 11:48:16

All children are precious. I do confusedhmm in my mind at people with other ideas.

M4blues Thu 19-Nov-15 11:48:50

I was somewhat with you until your last paragraph which I think sounds somewhat spiteful.

Every child is precious but it's just that for some parents, they had many years to obsess over the dream of parenthood rather than simply be presented with the reality so they can be guilty of overthinking things because that was their life for so long and they often still have to pinch themselves to believe their dreams have fully become reality.
Oh and I have 4 and mine are spoilt. Not in a nasty way but they get lots of gifts and I kiss and hug them 100 times a day. They're my children and I want to make them happy.

M4blues Thu 19-Nov-15 11:49:46

And Ds1&2 are 12&10 and I still cut their grapes.

Maryz Thu 19-Nov-15 11:50:05

I think there's a sort of desperation that comes with infertility that people who haven't lived through it won't experience. People who get pregnant easily, and have the number of children they want, when they want them, will never understand

So if you have been waiting ten years, spent thousands of pounds and an unimaginable amount of grief and emotional energy on having just one child, it is very hard not to be over-protective, because you know that is your one and only chance of parenthood.

Now I'm not saying that if you lose a pregnancy (or even worse a child), that you will get over it by having another. Of course you won't. But if you do have other children, you retain the experience of being a parent; you have the ups and downs of having children, the joys of Christmas, the first days of school, the chance of a future which includes grandchildren and a wider family.

For those who are infertile, it's not just the lack of a child they grieve - it's all that future, that life, that they will never have. So from that point of view a much wanted and long awaited child can seem like some sort of precious, irreplaceable miracle.

I accept I will be shot down for saying this, but having experience many years of infertility, and the joys of being a mother, I can see both sides.

ShebaShimmyShake Thu 19-Nov-15 11:50:59

It's not about you.

The pain of infertility and facing the very real possibility of not having children is far worse than feeling a bit narked about the feelings of someone who has experienced a particular suffering that you haven't. Her feelings and how they shaped her are about her, not you.

Friends of mine who have had miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies and infertility issues talk about their kids on Facebook and in real life far more than I do. I understand why and I don't care. It's not about me.

howtorebuild Thu 19-Nov-15 11:52:21

That's projecting your stuff onto a child though. Nothing justifies one child being more precious than another.

ShebaShimmyShake Thu 19-Nov-15 11:53:28

Also, I don't know how you read 'if you lose a child you can always have another kid to replace them' into what she said. Pure projection. I repeat: it's not about you.

AnnaMarlowe Thu 19-Nov-15 11:55:20

She wasn't trying to tell you that her child is more precious she was trying to tell you that due to years or heartbreak she's more anxious than the average mother.

I wouldn't have thought that it would take more than 5 minutes and a little empathy to think that through to be honest.

MrsFrisbyMouse Thu 19-Nov-15 11:58:08

That's not about the child being more precious - more a reflection of the parents intense anxiety caused by the years of trying.

I don't know - but I imagine that sometimes the strain of not being able to conceive naturally might mess with your ability to be a more laissez-faire style parent - (or at least enhance already present anxieties)

Her child is more precious, but only to her.

I think it's important to remember that expressing a view on how you see something (in this case risk about choking) is not necessarily a criticism of someone else's choices. Life isn't as simple as that - and we have to make choices (breastfeeding/not breastfeeding, sleep training/attachment parenting etc) But just because we come down on side of a particular fence, doesn't automatically mean we can't empathise with the other side as well.

Morro Thu 19-Nov-15 11:58:22

YABU and nasty. She never implied anything of the sort.

Rainuntilseptember Thu 19-Nov-15 11:59:25

Dc2 fits into the category for me of being more "precious" as he is a rainbow baby born after years of difficulties. I am more anxious with him as I have seen how easily it can all go wrong.
It does not mean I love him more than dc1, but I am far more aware of how hard it is to even have a child and how lucky I am, so yes I would describe him as being more "precious" to me as he was so hard come by.
The friend in the OP did not say your child was unimportant, but explained her greater anxiety. What's the problem really.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer Thu 19-Nov-15 12:04:52

I don't think she said anything wrong. She was explaining her anxiety, not valuing the children

I did have one woman (years ago when pregnant with dc 1) who explained an extra scan to me by saying "this is an IVF baby so if something happened I couldn't just go and have more like you could ". That did make me hmm and I steered clear.

SweetAdeline Thu 19-Nov-15 12:05:02

I can understand her attitude despite conceiving relatively easily. She is saying she is more anxious because of infertility not that her child is more precious.

Fwiw the parents I know who had fertility treatment do put more thought into their "parenting" than I do and I expect a part of that is because they had a lot more time to think about what sort of parents they wanted to be before they conceived (said children are all preschoolers and younger at the moment and I expect this difference will diminish as they get older though).

ByTheNine Thu 19-Nov-15 12:05:22

Maryz has explained it perfectly - great post.

3point14159265359 Thu 19-Nov-15 12:05:50

YABU. She was telling you she's anxious.

And furthermore, you'll probably find that for an adopted child, being neglected or abused, then moving families at least twice 'spoils' them far, far more than anything their (adoptive) parents might do.

HTH.

SweetAdeline Thu 19-Nov-15 12:06:54

I did have one woman (years ago when pregnant with dc 1) who explained an extra scan to me by saying "this is an IVF baby so if something happened I couldn't just go and have more like you could"

That wasn't a good way of putting it but I can understand that sentiment too.

Booyaka Thu 19-Nov-15 12:09:53

I think the entire post sounds spiteful. She didn't say anything of the sort about her child being more precious than yours. It sounds like some of the group were being sniffy about parenting choices and she explained that she was over cautious and her reasons why.

And yes you do get into the habit of being over cautious when you have fertility treatment, even before you conceive, because you don't want to take the slightest risk of anything going wrong. And yes, that does carry on after you've had the baby. It's a habit. But then 11 years of heartbreak every month, years of intrusive examinations and tests and months if not years of drugs and procedures like having needles shoved through the side of your vagina into your ovaries and phone calls to tell you exactly how many of your embryos have died today can make you extremely conscious of exactly how frail and delicate and difficult life can be which can give you a tendency to be extra careful which a parent who has never had to sit staring at a phone praying it won't ring because it might be the call that tells you your last hope at being a parent has withered away and gone in a lab that morning might not have a sense of.

And, of course, you have to put up with the type of woman, who is sadly quite common, who seems to view women who've had fertility treatment as an affront to their feminity and those who have had it as inferior and enjoy sticking the knife in every opportunity they get. Like turning a slightly defensive comment into a personal insult aimed at the worth of their own children.

LibrariesGaveUsP0wer Thu 19-Nov-15 12:09:54

Sweet - I did sort of get what she meant. But it was still pretty upsetting. She was that sort of person though.

ButtonMoon88 Thu 19-Nov-15 12:12:11

Wonderful post by Maryz. I was going to comment saying one thing but then I read that and changed my mind!! OP you aren't necessarily wrong but YABU to comment on it in the way that you did- let her get on with it!!!

Apathyisthenewblah Thu 19-Nov-15 12:15:54

maryz superb post probably said all that needs saying.
I do think you misread her though. It sounds to me like a mother who is aware she is anxious trying to justify herself and her attitude to risk.
I haven't been through IVF but I have been that anxious mother, I never felt that my child was more precious, just that my anxiety would make me suicidal if I considered anything happening to DD.

maybebabybee Thu 19-Nov-15 12:16:35

And Ds1&2 are 12&10 and I still cut their grapes.

Wow.

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