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To think the use of the word transmisogyny is meaningless

(37 Posts)
Pangurban1 Sat 24-Oct-15 01:05:02

www.theguardian.com/education/2015/oct/23/petition-urges-cardiff-university-to-cancel-germain-greer-lecture

Late, but I was interested in the use of the word transmisogyny. Misogyny is a hatred of women, not trans people. Tagging trans on the front of it is as meaningless as putting andro in front of misogyny -andromisogyny.

Why is the issue of transpeople who are born male the ones prioritised by the campaigners? Don't see a word transmisandry. It is quite a sabotage of all women's issues.

Pangurban1 Sat 24-Oct-15 01:15:07

Surely, trans issues are just as much mens issues. Or even a discrete category particular to that grouping.

Mmmmcake123 Sat 24-Oct-15 01:35:10

I've just read the article and agree. Inaccurate labels will never be of use. Tho I think labelling in itself should be out f lawed. Just my opinion

WheresMyBurrito Sat 24-Oct-15 01:46:28

Surely, trans issues are just as much mens issues

Well yeah, they would be, if this article focused on Greer's attitude towards trans men. But it doesn't, it's about her attitude towards trans women.

I think YABU. But there's plenty on here who will agree with you, I daresay.

nooka Sat 24-Oct-15 01:55:03

Shouldn't it be transphobia then? It seems a bit disingenuous to try and stop a feminist speaker speaking about women by calling her a misogynist. If it's thought her views about transpeople are hateful, then call that out sure (and cite some examples, otherwise it's a bit lazy).

VashtaNerada Sat 24-Oct-15 02:18:32

Yes, I'm not sure transmisogyny is a helpful word when we already have transphobia. As a big supporter of trans rights I'm not convinced no-platforming is particularly useful either.

HirplesWithHaggis Sat 24-Oct-15 02:25:36

I haven't read the link, but your Ancient Greek is shite.

(I failed my O grade in 1979, and even I can tell that.)

Mmmmcake123 Sat 24-Oct-15 02:43:01

Hirples not sure how your post adds to this discussion.
Agree with op and nooka, the term transmisogynist just doesn't add any value or further understanding.

LoveAndHate Sat 24-Oct-15 02:59:32

I love Germaine Greer.

WishIWasWonderwoman Sat 24-Oct-15 03:30:19

Germaine Greer hasn't even written about trans issues this century. Her last book that spoke about trans issues was in 1999. She has never advocated for violence or abuse against trans people. She has never even stated that they should be banned from surgery.

But since then she has been verbally abused, been mocked, been censored, been no-platformed and had objects thrown at her.

I don't agree with everything Germaine Greer has ever written or said but I think the treatment against her is abhorrent.

The talk she is being banned from is a not even a talk about transgender issues, it's called Women & Power: The Lessons of the 20th Century and has nothing to do with transgenderism. She is being silenced from talking about feminism because she has an opinion that some people don't like.

I think the word transmisogyny is bloody stupid. I think it's even stupider that you would ban a woman from talking to other women just for having the temerity to, over fifteen years ago, write about what she thinks it means to be a woman.

I quite liked her interview about it though (youtube link here, video has sound.)

MrsTerryPratchett Sat 24-Oct-15 03:37:51

Silencing and no-platforming feminists. If it waddles and quacks it's the patriarchy a duck.

NoodleEatingPoodle Sat 24-Oct-15 03:39:15

"It is quite a sabotage of all women's issues."

Yes, and it's intended to be. 'No Platforming' gender-critical feminists = silencing women who have the audacity to discuss the (in)validity of the very social construct (gender) which is the tool of women's oppression all over the World and all through human history.

Buy into the delusion that gender is hardwired into our pink or blue brains, and our biology and physiology is irrelevant to our womanhood, or be labelled a bigot.

It's fucking ridiculous.

CheerfulYank Sat 24-Oct-15 03:41:01

I don't have much to say yet but I'm following with interest.

nooka Sat 24-Oct-15 03:55:49

Germaine Greer swearing on the BBC! No bleeping either - I've not lived in the UK for a few years but surely that's slightly unusual?

You can see how irritated she is by the whole thing, and why not, it's all such a distraction.

TiredButFineODFOJ Sat 24-Oct-15 04:10:14

I think Germaine is heading into the territory of there being something wider than the binary male-female gender set up, and that's an attitude which is both inclusive and divisive for the trans community.
Saying that I've come round to the idea of transmisogyny and transmisandry as the "-phobia" implies scared of, rather than trans and gender based hatred. Which is what "transphobia" usually is.

HaydeeofMonteCristo Sat 24-Oct-15 08:06:22

Yanbu. Would like to say more, but no time! Agree with noodle.

MrsTerryPratchett Sat 24-Oct-15 16:30:46

Saying that I've come round to the idea of transmisogyny and transmisandry as the "-phobia" implies scared of, rather than trans and gender based hatred. Which is what "transphobia" usually is. Wouldn't mistrans-something be more grammatically accurate?

But what if it is neither 'scared of' nor 'hatred' but merely a fundamental disagreement of the scope, meaning and permanence of gender? Because arguing that gender is a social construct can be now construed as trans-phobia or -misogyny.

I think sex is a real, biological fact. I think gender isn't. Brings a whole new meaning to 'sex positive feminist'.

knittingdad Sat 24-Oct-15 16:46:48

At the risk of putting words in other people's mouths...

Greer's previous comments that are being criticised have been about people born as men who transition to be women. As I understand it she disputes that this is possible, based on her conception of what it means to be a woman. I'm not aware that she has said anything about whether people born as women can transition to become men (but if you suppose that a feminist might regard a woman as being capable of being and doing anything that a man can do plus - absent some medical conditions - possess the biological capacity to bear children, then the question is sort of moot, because in this conception woman = man + biological possibility of bearing children and so men are simply a subset of women who are genetically deficient....)

So in this case she is being called out quite specifically for criticising male-to-female trans people, rather than trans people in general. So I think that's where the awkward compound word of transmisogyny is coming from, implying that specific hatred of female-to-male trans people would be transmisandry.

Narp Sat 24-Oct-15 16:58:10

She's not being banned from the talk.

Narp Sat 24-Oct-15 17:03:10

... is she?

Narp Sat 24-Oct-15 17:07:42

Great interview.

MrsTerryPratchett Sat 24-Oct-15 17:12:56

based on her conception of what it means to be a woman Or, you know, basic biology. You fundamentally and totally misunderstand what this feminist thinks about men. men are simply a subset of women who are genetically deficient No, just no. hmm

I'd hate to speak for Germaine Greer but trans*men aren't asking her to move over, shut up and no-platforming her. They don't appear to be doing that to anyone. People have argued that having been socialised male may be the reason that trans*women are more vocal and aggressive with women. Of course, the other issue is that M2F is vastly more common so there are more voices.

Narp Sat 24-Oct-15 17:14:32

Interesting MrsTerryPratchett.

I am new to this debate. Reading with interest

SacredHeart Sat 24-Oct-15 17:27:36

I was on the side of, Greer should speak so that (as is the point of education) students get to hear many sides of the argument.

However, the most recent quotes I've seen from Greer she repeatedly, purposefully misgenders and misnames Trans*women (Jenner in particular) and this to me cheapens her argument. It is the same as a man using derogatory terms for a women in an argument about sexism. It's cheap way of scoring points.

MrsTerryPratchett Sat 24-Oct-15 17:49:05

GG hasn't made her name by pussy-footing around making sure she offends no one. She did say in the interview that she neither misnames nor misgenders people that she meets.

I think she's hacked off and tired of being asked to buy into something, with her language, that she fundamentally disagrees with. As a feminist, she knows how important language is. If you believe that sex is mainly binary, and you believe that sex has been used by the patriarchy to control and abuse women, do you suddenly start calling people with male genitalia, socialised as men, 'women' because they say so?

It is the same as a man using derogatory terms for a women in an argument about sexism. I do actually disagree with this. In my mind, it is important to work out what an insult is. 'She' is not an insult. 'He' is not an insult. I've been called a lesbian by misogynists. Not an insult. They meant it as one, it isn't one.

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