To be utterly sick of this child.

[Singsongsungagain]

Long long story...
Dd1 has known a girl since they were at nursery together. They're now in year 4. This girl has repeatedly been horrible to her (stealing her shoes and throwing them across a field when she was on a swing/hitting her/kicking her/saying utterly vile things about her unborn sibling- just awful).
There was a big show down a while ago when we had spoken to the school and ended up speaking to the parents who were friends of ours. As a result the parents stopped speaking to us- told us their child was "angelic" and blamed our daughter for not wanting to play with her (I wonder why?!) and therefore emotionally damaging her.
After this things settled down, my child was left alone with her lovely friends who are every bit as kind as she is and wouldn't harm a fly.
Today, this child decided my daughter "had" to play with her. She literally dragged her by the arm away from her friends. My daughter said she daren't say no as she's scared of what she would do to her.

Now what? I've spoken to school loads of times. The parents think she's wonderful- despite actually witnessing some of her nastiness towards my child.
Half the issue is my daughter is too nice to her and doesn't stick up for herself but I don't want to change that or tell her to hit back- she's lovely and should be allowed to stay that way!
Ahhhhhhh!!!!

[GruntledOne]

You need to let the school know about the latest incident. In effect this child is bullying yours, and therefore they need to put their bullying policy into operation. Ask for a copy of the policy, and ask them precisely what they are going to do to protect your daughter. And try to encourage your daughter to report problems herself.

[Singsongsungagain]

I have given her a big pep talk about telling someone straight away etc. I will speak to school (again) on Monday.
I just wish she'd leave her alone. My daughter loves school and I hate it that this child makes her life hard when she's there.

[MrsJorahMormont]

Tell the school, maybe a lunchtime assistant can keep an eye on her. She's a bully but you really need to encourage your daughter to be more assertive, even just saying something like I don't want to play with you or Leave me alone! The bully is relying on your daughter's compliance, just like all bullies.

[Goldmandra]

This is bullying and you need to insist that the school staff address it properly.

My DD had to put up with similar for two years until her year moved up to the next school. The head teacher there was much better and had solved the problem by the first half term.

I wish now that I had made more fuss when they were at the first school.

[Florriesma]

The school is downplaying g and will probably come out with links such as we can't separate them in the playground.
Ds2 has had an ongoing situation with a friend/enemy depending on friends mood.
It's been a long slog but I feel we are getting somewhere now. I've had to focus on ds reactions to situation and discussing friendship giving him strategies etc

[TheUnwillingNarcheska]

You need to put it in writing as there is then a paper trail, plus you need to record dates and specific incidents.

That way you and the school have a record of it all.

Do not contact the other parent. If the incidents happen in school then school deal with it.

Ask for a copy of their bullying policy if it isn't available on the school's website.

If there is any verbal communication with a teacher, again back it up in writing. ie "further to the discussion today..."

You have to be persistent, sadly. But your daughter is playing right into this girl's hands by being scared of what she will do to her. Talk her through that, tell her that the reason the girl doesn't want her telling a teacher is because she knows what she is doing is wrong.

[Singsongsungagain]

I have spoken to school who are convinced they don't have a bullying problem. I disagree.
It doesn't help that the parents are so blinded to get behaviour and don't even attempt to tackle it.
I have told my dd that she needs to shout "leave me alone" as loud as she can if she grabs her again with the aim of being noticed by her friends and teachers. She is worried that the bully will say she's being mean and my dd will be in trouble...

[Singsongsungagain]

Your advice is all brilliant by the way. Thanks to all of you.

[NewLife4Me]

I have just bought those books, The American girl for dd, they are really good. They cover bullying, friendship etc.
Even though mine is 11 she wan't used to playground stuff, so I thought i'd try them.

[NewLife4Me]

i think they are called A smart girls guide

[WorraLiberty]

You need to put it in writing as there is then a paper trail, plus you need to record dates and specific incidents.

This ^^ absolutely.

Keep it completely factual and unemotional if you can, so that it reads more like a statement than a judgement IYSWIM?

Think back though, did they really call their child "angelic?"

In my 23 years as a parent, I have never heard anyone use that word to describe their child.

I'm not saying they didn't say it (how would I know anyway?), but that sometimes when we're wound up/emotional we can sometimes mix what we think with what was actually said, if that makes sense?

[pinkypiemustdie]

I can see that you're really worried about your daughter but I was curious as to what the school staffs' perspectives are on the situation? The dynamics of children's relationships can often be very complex and I wonder if they see it as less black and white than you do. You paint your former friends as rather deluded, maybe they are but I wonder if approaching this issue by labelling it bullying may be counterproductive and having an open discussion with the class teacher instead may be a better path to helping your daughter.

[minimalistaspirati0ns]

It has to go through the school. Forget the parents. Email school. Leave a paper trail. Ask them what action they will be taking to stop the bullying and encourage your DD to speak up

[minimalistaspirati0ns]

I'd email something like 'as you are aware x bullied DD constantly last year. There has been some respite last term after x teacher tackled the issue, however on Friday DD was dragged away from her friends and forced to play with x. I'm sure you are aware DD is quite timid and was too scared to say no to x. Please can you take steps to resolve the issue and keep me updated'

Then ensure you email the school every time the girl steps out of line.

[Mari50]

Your daughter is relatively old, certainly old enough to be equipped with techniques to tell another child that she doesn't want to play with them. Lovely that you want her to remain 'lovely' but give her a backbone to maintain that loveliness or every bitch she meets will suck it out of her. Sadly, little girls can be the most two faced nasty little bitches known to man and their parents will invariably be unaware or worse facilitate this (hence all the birthday party/no invite threads)

[pinkypiemustdie]

I think I'd steer clear of words like 'constantly', 'dragged' and 'forced' it sounds like hyperbole, I think that could have the school labelling you as pains in the ass and dismissing any valid issues you have.

[HolgerDanske]

Your poor Dd

Lots of good advice already.

One thing I wanted to say, though, and that's that I completely understand that you want your daughter to stay lovely, as you put it it, but there's also nothing wrong with standing up for yourself, and if necessary, hitting back. You can be perfectly lovely and still make it very clear that you won't be messed around with, and this is actually a very important life lesson. So rather than discouraging her from being assertive, I would work with her to develop strategies for setting clear boundaries.

Yes she should absolutely go and tell someone, but it's actually a good thing if she can develop her own mechanisms for demanding and expecting respect. How exactly to develop those depends on the individual, of course.

for you and your daughter, I know how rough it is - my daughter went through something similar for a few years.

[GruntledOne]

Any school that thinks it doesn't have a bullying problem is deluded or in denial. In this case it looks like the latter.

[Katarzyna79]

My daughter is in the same year as yours, she had a problem with a year 1 pupil when she was in year 3. My girl is an introvert can be very shy and looks easily intimidated. So she didn't know this girl at all, she would approach her whilst she was playing with her friends and just push her, then she started kicking her. we told her to tell the teachers but other than removing the girl nothing was done.

to be honest I know it sounds bad but my husband told her why do we send you to judo, would you let your brother treat you like that. he said next time she kicks you defend yourself. if the teachers call me in i'll deal with them. well I didn't say no, because I recall covert bullies targeting me in secondary so I knew the non defence approach doesn't work. I wasn't worried about her hurting the girl because shes not like my overly hyper son who seems to like play fighting with hisfriends.

my daughter got the wrong message from her dad rather than fighting back when the girl hit her, she thought she was supposed to find the girl and push her immediately. so she found the girl during break and pushed her. it seemed to work she didnf get trouble from that girl again. she did get a yellow card which meant she missed her free time to play. shes a star pupil I thgt sugaf shes going tp come home in tears. but no she was defiant I don't care if I got a yellow card the teachers didn't help me.

I know manymums and dads will disagree but I think staying silent not acting makes it progressively worse. I wouldn't contact the parents because they are either aware of what their child is like or defensive and in denial, they will get aggressive and join in with the bullying or intimidation at the gates.

so if you were my friend I would say your daughter needs to fight back. get her into a drama class and a martial art for confidence building. her whole posture and walk will scream confidence over time, bullys usually spot ppl they perceive to look weak.

[Katarzyna79]

Btw I know you said you don't want your daughter's lovely character changing but it Wont make her aggressive at all, its not made my daughter that way, she still allows her bully of a brother to get away with murder. it will only improve her character she will learn to say no and stand uo for herself. I blame myself maybe its genetic but I am naïve gullible too nice walk over all these things so many pp have told me and ppl do take advantage. So your daughter should be the wonderful person she is but assertive and strong also noting wrong with having a good balance.

[BarbarianMum]

Kartarzyna So you sent your 7 year old to push over a 5 year old? You sound anything but "too nice"

[minimalistaspirati0ns]

She can be lovely and stand up for herself.

[Katarzyna79]

Yes I tacitly approved. Have you ever been bullied I have I know it never stops until you are assertive and the school does nothing even if they are a Brilliant school.

Just why are you targeting my post read the entire thread many others have just as well cleverly implied what I bluntly said.

age is irrelevant since the 5 year old was approaching my daughter in anotjer section of the playground not even knowing her, and hitting her whn she was clearly mjch older thismgirl had no fearmor sens of respect. no kind words stopped her she continued. the teachers didn't help either, what would you suggest? my 7 yr old should take the kicks coz she was simply older? how absurd is that?

[Singsongsungagain]

Yep they did indeed use the word "angelic". I know. I've never heard anyone else use such a term either.
Re judo etc, this girl goes to ju jitsu which is run by the school. One of the biggest issues our dd has had is with her threatening to "do ju jitsu" on her and then proceeding to do so. It was our main cause for complaint to the school who promised that she'd either stop or be thrown out of the club.
We've also had her pushing our dd off a chair during a lesson, shoving pencils in her ears, pushing her to the floor then dragging her around a corridor etc etc. I wish it were hyperbole but sadly it isn't.

[Ijustworemytrenchcoat]

It sounds like a horrible situation for your daughter.

I would reiterate what others have already said and push this issue with the school. I've never known a school who would actually admit to having a bullying problem. Make it difficult for them to deny by copying in the LEA, school governors etc. to your correspondence.