As women we con ourselves that men fear intimacy/emotional involvement/think they're not good enough for us.

[Icouldbesogoodforyou]

Of course, there will be a small amount of men with deep emotional problems but on the whole, we're lying to ourselves and I want to know why?!.

I've done it myself - had a relationship or a shorter encounter where they withdraw or act badly and I excuse it by thinking they have a fear of closeness etc.

There are threads on here ALL the time with the same story. ' I met someone, felt a real connection and he did too - told me he hadn't felt like this before, was worried he'd be hurt, thought I was fab etc and we slept together (one night or a few weeks) and he changed - ended it, blocked me on social media, is going out with someone else now'.

And often, we don't think he was a player or spun a line to get us in bed. We make threads about our confusion, I'm SURE he had feelings for me so I'm confused. And some replies will say move on, he's a player and some will say he probably does have feelings for you and is scared'. But yet, has chosen to treat you badly because that's how men treat women they like- to push them away.

Why do we do this?. Why do we torture ourselves with the idea that we were somehow so wonderful that we scared them away or they would be willing to go through life without us because the 'feelings' they felt with us were too much.

As much as I dislike that kind of book - 'he's just not that into you' is true. A man who really wanted to spend time with you and be in a relationship with you wouldn't let anything stop him - as long as you want to be with him too.

I can't think of any relationship (or not wanting to pursue a ons or fling) that I haven't continued with because I thought the man was better than me or I feared an emotional connection.

I can't think of any of my numerous male friends that have done the same. They've ended it because they just weren't that interested.

I have never known a female friend push away a potential relationship because she didn't feel good enough or feared intimacy. And haven't known a male friend do it either so why do we con ourselves?.

[annandale]

I completely agree with this. I think the number of people who get 'scared' about relationships, unless they are with a scarily violent or intimidating person, is tiny.

I also think the same about 'commitment-phobia'. I don't think it exists. Either someone wants to be with you or they don't.

I also think that people are very rarely nasty to beautiful individuals because of 'jealousy' though I would accept that I would have no idea about that, as I have a face like a potato.

[SacredHeart]

I'm interested who does this? Don't take this the wrong way but I assumed this was a "pathetic woman" movie trope (like the "pathetic man" high flying business man who can't make a cup of coffee or heat up a pop tart) that only exists in Hollywood.

[Spartans]

I have seen a few threads here. Not enough to suggest this is a female traits.

I have know a few male friends the odd one has agonised over why a girl doesn't seem that fussed. I have known the odd female friend do it.

When a man does it, his friends usual just tell the guy 'she isn't interested leave it'

But I find, generally, women feel uncomforatble telling their friend....'he is just not into you!' And often it's the friends that start the 'maybe he is afraid of commient, his feelings etc'

I am sure some men do use it as an excuse too disappear too. these are just my experiences.

[Icouldbesogoodforyou]

Broken - I say 'we' because I see so many threads on here with women saying ' we had such a connection, he told me I was so different to every woman he'd loved which implied he had feelings for me but he's gone now and I feel so confused'.

I realised a long time ago that some men will say what is needed till they get laid. I don't think all women realise that which is why they post on MN saying 'I'm so confused' or 'how do I reply to his text saying it's understandable he's got too much on right now but I don't want to exclude myself in the future'. That was a recent thread but don't want to reference as it's not on but such threads are frequent.

[Spartans]

Oh and I do think commient phobia exists. However it's an over used term that has just become part of everyday language like OCD.

[Spartans]

Some people are naive. Men and women. Some people talk bullshit. Men and women.

You see it more here because it's mainly women that post.

[WhirlpoolGalaxyM51]

I don't really relate to the OP TBH.

IME there is as big a range of types of men as there are women. Some like commitment / monogamy, some don't. Most like one thing at one point in their lives and might look for something else at another point.

Like a PP I always thought the idea of women sitting around angsting over blokes who actually just "aren't that into them" (wasn't that a film?) was a Hollywood device.

It seems very reductive, the perspective in the OP.

"Why do we torture ourselves with the idea that we were somehow so wonderful that we scared them away or they would be willing to go through life without us because the 'feelings' they felt with us were too much."

I've never thought this and it doesn't sound like something many women would think "oh it's because I'm too wonderful" not many of us have egos that big are you thinking of (some) men

If a bloke doesn't get in touch then it's because he's not interested.
If a bloke declares his undying love and then doesn't get in touch it's because he was a game playing wanker and you're better off without him.
In either case, on to the next seems the appropriate response.

Of course some of this needs to be learnt from experience and some people learn this faster than others. Men need to learn this too, some women are only after one thing, at the time.

[Hoppipolar]

You're generalising men and women massively! Which is very wrong imo.

[SaucyJack]

It's a self-preservation thing I guess.

Your ego prefers to convince you that a bloke has deep-rooted and incurable emosh ishoos rather than accept s/he probably just doesn't fancy you enough to go out with you.

I am a HJNTIY disciple now, but I binned my first copy after reading it during a particularly painful break-up. The truth set me free in the end tho.

[thehypocritesoaf]

I've never thought this and if I met someone who did male or female I would tell them nicely that they are deluded.

[Icouldbesogoodforyou]

I think most of the time the replies on MN threads are 'player, he wanted a shag etc' but I do often see, he probably did like you but is busy, scared etc.

But MN is a corner of the internet where many members are educated or perhaps less naive than in the real world.

But the threads come up and it seems to me a reflection of the views of many women that men are scared of feelings and being shits is because of that.

I think both genders can talk bullshit and do but I don't see the over - analysis in men at a comparable rate as I see in women.

And I do think the romanticism of relationships is more about women putting up with shit because he'll eventually realise he'll love you plays a part.

Breakfast Club - he'll publicly humiliate you and seem like he hates you because he fancies you and then snog you.

The English Patient - he'll make you feel like shit till you're dying and then he'll break down because he loved you so much but was such an emotional cripple he had to make you think he hated you.

That's just a couple of examples in films that I love. There are many others!.

I want to explore why women treated badly want to assume it's for any other reason that the other person is treating them badly.

And on one of the recent threads a poster said 'you do not have a magic vagina' so even though I never thought I had a magic vagina I do things some women (often OW) do think there is something so unique or special about them that it will result in a relationship.

And isn't that what we all hope?. That we meet someone that thinks we're special and they want to be with us. So when someone shag us and doesn't think we're that special we want there to be a reason that isn't became we're not special,.and just the same as everyone else?.

[ouryve]

We?

Speak for yourself. And your friends maybe, but not for me, please.

[thehypocritesoaf]

Why would it happen? Culturally we pick up crap ideas such as:

-men are always unemotional/poor communicators/from Mars etc

-Better to be in a crap relationship rather than no relationship.

• love will conquer everything.

[Spartans]

But MN is a corner of the internet where many members are educated or perhaps less naive than in the real world

I don't agree with this. I have seen some very naive threads regarding all sorts of things. Niave and educated are not mutually exclusive either.

People often pick the wrong partners. I think part of why people don't want to admit they picked a dickhead is pride. They don't want everyone to know they made a mistake.


People want to save face rather than say 'he/she just doesn't like me that much'


Sometimes friends help keep this going by agreeing 'yeah it's just and timing' because it makes you feel better.

Lots of reasons people don't want to face reality.

[OneDay103]

We? Don't speak for me as I can assure you that is not my experience. In fact the men and women I know certainly don't fall into your generalizations.

[ToGoBoldly]

Jeepers, you must hang out with some intense people

[50shadesofcray]

YANBU OP

I fed myself the "he's scared" line in every relationship that didn't work out until my two longterm relationships (back to back.) When I met my exDP and DH it just happened and continued positively from the very beginning. Despite our own individual emotional issues, despite dysfunctional families, despite addictions, life getting in the way, being busy at work, being ill, long distance etc.

When someone is into you, and you are into them, you both make it work, no matter what.

[50shadesofcray]

And yes I hate telling my friends that. It's very hard. Lots of my friends get offended at the "he's just not that into you" concept.

And if I ever am brave enough to say it, what normally happens is that the player/whoever uses them for sex again/gets back in touch/spins some yarn, and they tell me I must be wrong. I eat humble pie, and then a couple of months down the line, he is distant again.

So it just is not worth it for me to tell my friends HIJNTIY

[Icouldbesogoodforyou]

O.k. I apologise for saying 'we'. I thought it was better than saying 'some gullible/foolish women'.

I bought into the same views when much younger but am always suprised to see it on here when the poster should have the life experience to know better but then when it's a woman newly single after coming out of a long relationship I assume it's a naivety/hope of something different attributable to not being experienced on the dating scene.

I think I'd look like I was victim blaming if I said ' why do women fall for this shit?'.

[SoleBizzzz]

My last coupe of exes were just not into me or thought I was worth having a relationship with. The experience has made me realise I'm nothing special and to save myself from any further hurt I have been single for eight years now.

[80schild]

I was definitely a bit deluded when I started dating guys however, as soon as I realised what some men were like I played them at their own game. Quite a few of them deserved it, others didn't, but in hindsight it definitely didn't help in forming lasting relationships and I think it would be quite easy to fall into a trap of having loads of of short-term lovers.

So in answer, OP has a point but maybe it is not always as straight forward as "he's not that into you".

[SolidGoldBrass]

Basically, no one likes being dumped. We all tend to comfort ourselves with stories along the lines of it being some fault in the other person that made them not want to stay with us, but at least women (on the whole) only whine and bore their friends about it. Men who have been dumped often get vicious and declare that the woman who rejected them was a stuck up bitch and deserves to be punished.

What a lot of people forget (probably because of the relentless and harmful cultural pressure to engage in longterm monogamous relationships when they are not actually that big a deal) is that it's OK to dump someone for any reason whatsoever. If you don't want to carry on seeing someone it's fine just to walk away. No one is entitled to a longterm relationship with you just because they want one.