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To think the Chinese Teachers that taught in a English Comprehensive in Hampshire need to concentrate on their own countries problems.

(170 Posts)
sunshield Mon 03-Aug-15 11:51:28

This experiment taken by BBC 2 ' Are our children tough enough' proves how far removed Chinese teaching methods are from , creating independent creative thinkers.

The Chinese teachers actually buy in to their 'state driven' dogmatic culture, that breeds total obedience to the state of china. They are also victims because they are unable to accept , that independent thinking is the key to a happy life.

China has abject poverty for 99% of the population, yet they decry a system that 'no matter that it is being altered ' still attempts to ensure no one starves on the street.

There is also another question to be asked about the PISA results , why do they only show schools from Shanghai ?. We could respond by only quoting results from Private or Grammar schools, because their results have been 'doctored'.

The quote we only have one type of syllabus in China 'survive or die' is typical of a state controlled workforce. This also shows they have no compassion for anyone who does not fit the norm though either academic intelligence or through Autism etc. The comment about not understanding the child who ran out of the class about 'One Direction' proves they have no understanding about teenage problems, whoever trivial.

The English education system needs to take no advice from the Chinese education system, despite what the baying mob think on the Daily Mail website think.

besttalk Mon 03-Aug-15 12:05:20


corlan Mon 03-Aug-15 12:06:34

Thing is though, I bet all those teachers would have spelt 'country's' correctly.

LazyLohan Mon 03-Aug-15 12:06:54

99% of the Chinese are in abject poverty? That's bullshit.

FarFromAnyRoad Mon 03-Aug-15 12:07:21

corlan <<<clicks LIKE>>> grin

Theycallmemellowjello Mon 03-Aug-15 12:08:06

Eh? I might say the same of you -- why on earth are you worrying about Chinese education (something it's quite clear you don't have any kind of expertise in)?

00100001 Mon 03-Aug-15 12:12:07

I get her the point is actually that Chinese kids work much harder than UK kids and achieve more because the huge population means there isbmore competition.

They actually have a respect for education that you just don't see in the UK. Kids here are lazy and generally people do jot appreciate education.

chocolatechip123 Mon 03-Aug-15 12:12:17

I don't know what the system is lime now but from reading lots of autobiographies of Chinese women up to the 1970s, the Chinese system used to be very tough, kids whacked and cheating rife (OK to whisper the answer to a classmate as long as it was correct). Life was, and still is cheap - remember the 2 recent videos of a child being run over by scooter and just left in the street for dead, and the man bludgeoning a small child with a metal pole? People just watched/passed by.

You can't really judge from your own cultural POV.

LazyLohan Mon 03-Aug-15 12:15:12

I agree with them completely about the girl running out of class because of Zayn. I can understand her being upset and sad about it. I can't understand her thinking she has the right to disrupt her own and other people's education over it.

I also find this emphasis on being 'creative' tiresome. It's very nice to be creative, but for the overwhelming majority of us creativity doesn't put food on the table or pay the bills. It should come firmly second to reading and writing and knowing how to add up.

As for independent thinking, that is a by product of a good basic education which results in an ability to read and understand a wide range of subjects and the ability to understand scientific and mathematical concepts.

I also tend to find that most teachers who say they want 'independent thinkers' don't want independent thinking at all. They want thinking which is independent of those who may disagree with the teacher, but not independent of their own views.

OfaFrenchMind Mon 03-Aug-15 12:52:52

Well, just because you object to some aspects of a country does not mean that you should reject in block what these teachers have to tell you. Most of all if you have the ignorance you are showing about their own culture and education...
Yes, western children are too coddled and given far too much gold stars for what they actually do. Sad but true. We treat them as if they are all bright and destined to be unique snowflakes, and tbh, that's setting them up for failure. Because on the other hand, anything that could hint at selection, giving actual brightest pupils more demanding work and challenge than their average counterparts is looked on as unsupportable elitism, both by teachers and parents.

Most people, what we call the average, are just that: average, destined to average jobs, and average life.

Andthenutlookedgood Mon 03-Aug-15 12:54:38

Well as the Chinese teachers appear to have been invited to England to experience the British education system and evaluate how different it is to the one they work in they have every right to pass comment.

Points about not valuing education and poor discipline (personal and in the class room) are not unusual in reference to our education system.

I think independant thinking is great but you need to have learnt the knowledge before you can develop an opinion on it.

RamblingRosieLee Mon 03-Aug-15 12:57:06

YES your right op of course they do, chinese have a lot to be desired in terms of society, not their fault at all but decades of communist rule. with the human rights record I dont even know why we do anything with them

RamblingRosieLee Mon 03-Aug-15 12:58:38

* chocolatechip123 Mon 03-Aug-15 12:12:17

yes I was also going to mention the scooter, I have also read lots of autobiographies on china and book on it.

Moopsboopsmum Mon 03-Aug-15 13:02:07

In China only the drones are educated by the state. The overlord's kids are all at exclusive UK, US and Aus boarding schools. There is nothing to be admired about their oppressive system.

LazyLouLou Mon 03-Aug-15 13:02:34

Yes, you are right. Because sharing experiences, learning different social mores is such a waste of time.

I can guarantee that some of the methodology they bring will be adopted here and some of the methodology here will betaken back to China.

A fair exchange is no robbery, as they say!

longtimelurker101 Mon 03-Aug-15 13:04:19

Friends who teach at a number of different universities tell me that many students from East Asia struggle with the critical thinking needed for higher level learning. They can tell you what the answer is, not why it is the answer and how they got there. In fact a good friend who lectures philosophy at a leading uni has had students from these areas stay behind after classes to ask her for the answers to a set essay assignment.

I'm not saying its better or worse, but the ability to think around a subject, not just parrot off answers is very important.

Being a teacher though, I do see British kids who really don't appreciate the services provided for them and (sacrilege for MN I know) this is not just kids from challenging backgrounds. I've taught in the idiom of this sight would be called a "naice" comprehensive in leafy London suburbs, a lot of students were very entitled and knew they didn't have to work that hard to get on, the opportunities would provided by Mummy and Daddy.

sunshield Mon 03-Aug-15 13:07:25

Sorry for some of my 'Spelling Mistakes' since I am Dyslexic/Dyspraxic and Autistic. Maybe I would have been one who would just 'die' because I could not adapt to 12 hours a day schooling....

A country that has many capital offences , takes people to scrub-land and puts a bullet in them is not a country we should take lessons from. The other thing it seems the chinese teachers views are that education should be for the benefit of the state rather than the child's benefit .

LazyLouLou Mon 03-Aug-15 13:09:29

So, you don't believe that the Chinese society is slowly changing, then?

You prefer to focus on what was and berate them for that rather than support their attempts to change?


Theycallmemellowjello Mon 03-Aug-15 13:10:57

I think you have to be careful with how far you go with the Old 'East Asians are good at sums but bad at adding up' argument. There's a grain of truth in it (different emphases in schools, intense competition for school/university places leading to teaching to the test), but it overlooks the fact that there are lots of extremely intelligent, creative people in Asia, and also a range of experiences and approaches. I happen to have a couple of really intelligent and original Chinese friends who could have held their own in any Oxbridge tutorial. And no it's not because they were educated in the west - they weren't.

DadfromUncle Mon 03-Aug-15 13:16:12

chinese teachers views are that education should be for the benefit of the state rather than the child's benefit

Substitute "Multi-National Corporation" for "State" and you have most Tory Governments' view of the purpose of (state) education.

The creative and leadership stuff is reserved for Gideon and his chums at Eton/Marlborough etc.

longtimelurker101 Mon 03-Aug-15 13:22:25

Theycallmemellowjello, I was repeating things that have been said, there are undoubtedly lots of highly intelligent people from all parts of the globe. This was a discussion on teaching methods though, and it has been noted by LOTS of people in the education sector that SOME students from China, Singapore, Hong Kong etc are weaker in terms of critical thinking.

Oh btw, its also noted by several education studies that students who do well at comprehensive schools often out perform those from private schools at Uni.

Oliversmumsarmy Mon 03-Aug-15 13:27:17

Unfortunately this week I have witnessed 2 incidences via social media from China that left me speechless, first was the woman who got swallowed by the escalator whilst a group of people within arms length looked on, they just stood there as though they were waiting for someone to tell them what to do. The second was of a little boy drowning, a woman just stood in front of him watching then swimming off. Fortunately a lifeguard jumped in but it took minutes before he saw what was going on, the little boy looked like he was going down for the last time. I would sincerely like to know why these people just didn't grab hold of the woman or boy.

Nolim Mon 03-Aug-15 13:27:41

I dont know anything about the chinese education system but when a read something like To think the Chinese Teachers that taught in a English Comprehensive in Hampshire need to concentrate on their own countries problems i think sure, lets not have a discussion about education, lets tell ppl from another country that they cannot offer anything until they have sorted out their own country, that has to be constructive. hmm

sanfairyanne Mon 03-Aug-15 13:30:54

its just typical sloppy thinking. previously it was the amazing japanese system
then their economy crashed . . .

plenty of problems with attitudes to education in the uk, but not many lessons we would want to learn from a dictatorship i would think

SheGotAllDaMoves Mon 03-Aug-15 13:33:49

longtime that's not quite what those studies show.

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