To get tough with DS?

[pickingstrawberries]

DS is 8 and within the last few months has become really pretty rude.

He was always lovely - quiet and thoughtful and considerate, and he still is - to other people. I on the other hand get told to 'shut up, stop going on' - yesterday things got a bit heated over clothes on the bannister of all things and he hurled them downstairs at me.

He's had a lot to cope with - new sibling and he was an only child for seven years so it's bound to be a big transition but I've tried the lovey understanding stuff and I think he is getting worse

AIBU to get tough with him? I don't mind forgotten stuff, mess, dirt, noise, but I absolutely hate rudeness.

[ssd]

it'll take time and patience and maybe you being a bit firmer, but understanding he's really young and a new baby has unsettled him

try spending time with him alone and dont expect him to grow up overnight

[SundayBea]

I would agree with trying to spend as much one on one time with him as possible, really praise him when he is good but also let him know that his rudeness is not acceptable. Sounds difficult OP but the situation will improve as time goes on

[FanOfHermione]

Boundaries just repeated agauin and again.
He throws things away, ask him to come and pick them up. He doesn't and stomp off? Leave them where they are and ask him again later on when hge has calmed down.
Challenged every single one of the instences when he is rude (I don't mean punisging btw but highlighting and reminding him he shouldn't. A stern look is usually enough even iif it might not be enough to stop him iyswim).

And yes he will calm down and he needs understanding but what you don't want is him learning he can be rude in the process iyswim.

[pickingstrawberries]

That's just what I'm worried about - don't want him thinking he can be rude.

Problem is I've been waiting for the situation to improve for a few months now and I am fed up of being spoken to like dirt.

[Shockers]

I remember looking back when a friend told me her 8 yr old was getting cheeky and realising that DS had also had a cheeky phase at that age.

I perfected a death stare that still comes in useful occasionally (he's now 15), to let him know that the mark had been overstepped. If that failed (which was rare), he was sent to a quiet room to 'think about whether he would like to be spoken to in that way'. His conclusion was generally that he wouldn't. If he still thought he had a genuine grievance, we were both then calm enough to discuss it. This still works now on the odd occasion that his mouth gets the better of his manners.

[pickingstrawberries]

Must cultivate this death stare.

He just seems to have no respect for me at all.

[SeriouslyIRegisteredtoAskThis]

DS1 seemed to grow up over night on his eighth birthday(a few months ago). And really resented being spoken too as a small child. "You will do what I've said when I have said" no longer worked and he was quite rude.

I've found treating like more of a grown up in both what I will let him do (eg cook dinner by himself and walk to the shop) but also in how I expect him to behave ( eg 8 yrs old do there homework without fuss, 8yr old can tell me they are upset and why they are upset without throwing a strop). Has really worked. Back to my nice polite boy again.

Also reading the good old MN standby of how to talk so children listen can do no harm.

[starlight2007]

I had this with my 8 year old... no new sibling though and talking on the playground it is quite common... I have also noticed in my Ds he is starting to build muscles on his arms and chest so think he is possibly building up testosterone.

I found with my Ds we went away and found some us time reconnecting rather than locked in a battle.

We sat down talked about what was and wasn't ok. What he could do if he thought something was unfair. How it was ok to be angry however things such as throwing clothes are not acceptable...I can tell you my 8 year old pushes his luck if he thought he could get away with been rude because there is a new baby in the house I think he would.

I realise with a new baby a break isn't likely...Can you put aside some time when LO is sleeping to make board ,game ,do some craft, make pizza with him...Let him do something that makes him feel more grown up. I taught my DS to iron the other day.. not that it was helpful in anyway, i stressed he would burn himself however it was a novel thing for him that showed he was more grown up.

I have also found with him if I send him to his room to calm down we do better than battling while he is in a strop about not getting his own way

[FernGullysWoollyPully]

7 came in our house and it was hell for a year. 6 months in I wanted to kill him. It wasn't just the cheekiness, but the temper. Blimey at times he could go at it like a 3 year old. I thought I was the only one with a 7 year old like this but friends have confirmed that their children were/are similar at that age.

But I didn't kill him. And he did come out the other side. He's 8 and lovely. I just had to keep calm, repeating the boundaries. Reminding him to use his words instead of getting a bit screechy because he's old enough to know how to express his grievances with us calmly and loosening the reins a bit so he was allowed more jobs and responsibilities etc. If he lost control, which inevitably he did at first, he went to his room to think it out. If he couldn't voice what he had to say, he wrote it. Seemed to calm him down.

Have a 7 year old dd now and she has started doing exactly the same. I feel more prepared this time.

[pickingstrawberries]

How reassuring! I was honestly feeling like the WORST mother in the world! That's just what he does - loses his temper and then gets all remorseful and upset.

I've been so paranoid that I've spoiled him, been too strict/not strict enough ...

[Lonecatwithkitten]

My DD had her life turned upside down when she was 8. She was very angry at the changes to her life and react in a similar way to your DS. I was very consistent I empathised with her that I did understand, however, it was no excuse for rude behaviour. Loving, firm, consistency worked, but it took time.
They are 8, they are beginning to under go puberty type changes and everything they knew (Mummy to themselves etc.) has changed.

[queenrollo]

I think this is definitely a phase. I have the same age gap between my two....so am currently dealing with a stroppy, demanding, boundary pushing 2.5 year old and a stroppy, demanding, boundary pushing 9 year old.
There are definitely hormonal changes at play here....body changing physically, skin changing etc.

Rudeness, throwing, stomping around. DS1 and I have now agreed that the trampoline is the place to go and get rid of some of the negative energy. I do try to spend time alone with him, but actually he prefers to be with my DH (his step-dad, and he is with his dad half the week too) as I think he's really craving male company right now.
He's definitely maturing too, asking if he can help cook dinner or with other housework - though infuriatingly also being a lazy sod and doing as little as possible when it comes to boring day to day housekeeping.
The last 18 months have been hard work in this house - but I am just trying to give him a bit of space to grow.
I think this is a confusing stage for them - they're not really little boys anymore, but not made the transition to bigger boys. My DS1 swings from wanting to be more grown up and then has moments where he seems to be desperately clinging to his 'childhood'.

We also have lying (silly lies....like banging something noisy IN FRONT OF ME and then denying he did it).
He knows that there are certain behaviours I just won't tolerate and I do try and reason out with him why but I think their hormones and psychology just overide them sometimes.

[morelikeguidelines]

My dd has moments of this. Always absolutely polite to others but can be short with me, and tries to get away with not doing things I say.

The plus side, I think, is that he is clearly very comfortable with you, and it's good he doesn't see you as a polite stranger!

However you clearly can't accept rudeness or ignoring what you say, and neither can I! I agree with just repeating the boundaries over and over and not letting stuff go. And praise for good behaviour also.

Last night dd (she is 6, nearly 7) decided she had to eat her pudding sitting on the table. I asked her not to and and tried to ignore this and argue the toss - not rudely but as though what I said did not matter. I had to insist she sit on her chair just because she needs boundaries - I could have let it go and no physical hard would have been done, but I felt I had to insist. She sat down fairly soon.

My big thing with kids is kindness though, especially to other children. It gets my goat (mn favourite) when kids are unkind to one another and this is where I am zero tolerance.

[pickingstrawberries]

I can't tell you how grateful I am for these posts, I actually feel a zen like calm upon me!

My DS does the stupid lying thing as well but smirks as he says it. Also shows a distinct preference for DH over me.

He is very sweet to his younger sister and to family pets; I don't feel he's unkind or mean but certainly (to me) rude, stroppy, sulky interspersed with tearful, clingy and remorseful. I do think he experiments with different 'types' of cheek - told me to 'zip it' yesterday

I have banned Horrid Henry.

[fourtothedozen]

OP- when you say "things got a bit heated", are you losing your temper and shouting?
Also is his "new sibling" your new baby?

Positive strokes are far more effective than harsh discipline. Take time to spend with him without his new sibling, make it clear this is your special time. Comment when he is helpful and behaving well, cultivate his sense of responsibility and his new more grown up position in the family.
Focus on the positive, you will find the bad things will start to melt away.

I don't think being harder on him is the answer, it's finding a way to see himself in a good light and a valuable family member.

[pickingstrawberries]

It was him who was losing his temper and shouting - I asked him to move some clothes I'd washed and put outside his room and put them away, and he shouted that no, he wouldn't, and I should do it

Yes, my new baby is his sister.

I've always focused on the positive. It just doesn't seem to be working.

[Wafflenose]

Reading with interest as I have a 9 year old who can be rude and shouty. I also banned Horrid Henry!! If they won't do as they're asked, or be reasoned with, it's worth trying again when they're calmer, and explain why: "We all live here, so we all have to help keep things tidy/ put our clothes in the laundry basket" etc. If my DD can see WHY she is being asked to do something, she's far more likely to do it.

Love Fern's and Seriously's ideas about being old enough to use words/ say why they are upset/ get things done without drama, coupled with growing responsibilities as they get older. My DD is very responsible so has more freedom than a lot of her friends (has been walking herself home from school for 2 years, and gets left home for 40 mins a week when I take the younger one to a music lesson) which she loves. So I will use some of these ideas too!

[Shockers]

We banned HH too! Tracy Beaker too for DD after she called her teacher 'loser' . She does have S/MLD though.

Funnily enough, at almost 17, she is functioning at around 6.5 yrs and is getting a bit cheeky and defiant. It's hard because at 16/17 she is technically an adult, but once she has used a phrase without being picked up on it, she will repeat it to anyone. We still have to be quite strict with regard to cheekiness because of this. She's a grand girl though!

[FanOfHermione]

Yes I was wondering where he had picked up all these lines!

So YY to ban HH but also maybe look at other 'sources' for examples of 'bad' behaviour and bad language that is actually considered nice or a good laugh. Some cartoons are quite bad but also other programs.
Eg I found that Top Gear had quite a negative effect on my dcs too (incl dc2 when he was about 9yo)

[pickingstrawberries]

My DS told his TA to shut up. I was utterly mortified. He is never rude to his dad or to his teacher though.

[Dancergirl]

We also have an intermittent problem with rudeness with our 8 year old dd.

I think it's really important to look long term and remember that all kids can be rude and cheeky at times. I don't mean that you should overlook rudeness but even more than picking them up on it, it's really important to model excellent manners yourself. Be polite every time you speak to a family member, waiters, shop staff etc. Children really pick up on how you speak to people and they will realise with maturity that that's the right way.

[pickingstrawberries]

I'm a really polite person Dancer which is why I'm so horrified at how rude my son is being.

I don't care about noise, or mess, or dirt, or daft behaviour but rudeness really upsets me and I do take it quite personally.

[ssd]

were you really polite at 8, pickingstrawberries?

[Dancergirl]

Yes I can understand picking our 8 year old is the youngest of 3 girls and I'm finding her behaviour a lot more challenging than our older two who are now 12 and 14. They were really well behaved as younger children, hardly ever rude, really very few problems. I am now eating my words with dd3, she sounds so spoilt and bratty sometimes. Goes to show it's more about the child than the parenting because she's had the same upbringing. I DO pick her up on rudeness but I hope with a good example set it will right itself in time.

[oldgrandmama]

My oldest grandson went through that stage too, around 8 - 9 years old. With his mum and with me. I perfected the 'death stare' too! He's now the most charming 12 year old and really good company. I agree with other MNers here - hormonal changes start quite early these days and are responsible for a whole load of behavioural issues.