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The letter from Dr Janis Burns on FB doing the rounds... AIBU to be [confused]

(307 Posts)
cloudsandrain Mon 20-Jul-15 15:02:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoeEyedNear Mon 20-Jul-15 15:04:30


I'm also confused by why they're up in arms about doing a 7 day working week when the rest of the UK workforce has shifted that way already

hambo Mon 20-Jul-15 15:05:24


BitchPeas Mon 20-Jul-15 15:06:57

Yanbu! It's the same as the tube driver pay vs doctors pay argument. Pointless and whiney!

QuiteLikely5 Mon 20-Jul-15 15:07:26

That was only part of her letter. It was 1500 words long. She's talking about now not ten years into the future.

cloudsandrain Mon 20-Jul-15 15:07:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChiefClerkDrumknott Mon 20-Jul-15 15:14:15

I read it this morning but the first thing I wondered was why she was comparing a doctor's salary to that of a manager in a commercial chain of shops. What has that got to do with anything? It's like comparing what the PM gets paid to the salary of a Premier League footballer, for example. Completely irrelevant and unrelated to each other. Disclaimer I skim read it very early this morning so perhaps she did explain it further and I missed it

Emo76 Mon 20-Jul-15 15:20:32

is she actually a doctor?

Emo76 Mon 20-Jul-15 15:25:11

Sorry - got confused- there's another one doing the rounds on FB from a Laura Land - got them mixed up.

SparkleZilla Mon 20-Jul-15 15:32:35

how are her student loans costing her £1,000 a month

Example repayment amounts
Income each year before tax£30,000
Monthly salary£2500
Monthly repayment £94

even a plan 1 + plan 2 loan
£32,000- £27 per month+ £82 per month = £109 per month

so she must have other loans that are costing her the other £900 (or £850) so she should renegotiate them

watchingthedetectives Mon 20-Jul-15 15:33:09

Most Drs do work 7 days already - the hospitals always have cover Christmas, Bank Holidays, Weekends etc for emergencies. Most are also already doing routine extra clinics and lists on Saturdays and Sundays.

The difficulty will be running all routine services on Sat and Sun which means you actually need to increase the workforce as a whole (not just Drs but nurses, radiographers, physios etc) All the political parties talk about increasing the numbers but never say where they will get them from - they certainly don't talk about training more to match the levels of the rest of Europe (approx twice as many Drs per head of the population as the UK) They mainly hope to poach other countries trained staff as they do with nurses from the Phillipines as it's cheaper if unethical.

It's a great spin to say the Drs won't do this work without actually looking at the issues underlying it- most will and many do already. Consultants don't work under the European Working time Directive in reality at present so they will have to have some time off in the week to allow for routine weekend working.

In my hospital we run Saturday and occasionally Sunday lists currently the rate limiter being entirely down to trained nurses.

SparkleZilla Mon 20-Jul-15 15:33:23

"Her medical degree left her with £27,000 in debts, paid back at a rate of £1,000 per month, and she must take locum shifts in neighbouring hospitals in order not to borrow money from her elderly parents"

from a website that shall not be named

SparkleZilla Mon 20-Jul-15 15:36:05

someone has commented on (that website) "she is moaning that because she was Scottish but studying in England she had to pay the tuition fees!! Welcome to our world. Actually it was her second degree which is never funded anyway!!"

i'm only copying and pasting, so cannot verify

I love Drs on our NHS I think they're awesome (and nurses, and carers etc, and cleaners etc)

ThenBellaDidSomethingVeryKind Mon 20-Jul-15 15:39:33

I see watching has beaten me to it smile - I came on to say that most doctors already work weekends regularly. Their wages, imho (which aren't as high as some people believe) make them political footballs: the reality is that doctors aren't the whole story - there needs to be a weekend presence in a variety of different roles/grades if we're to make weekend hospital treatment equivalent to what we'd get on a Tuesday morning.

ThenBellaDidSomethingVeryKind Mon 20-Jul-15 15:43:55

For example, a friend was recently admitted via A&E with severe abdominal pain. It was the weekend. She was seen very quickly by a consultant but it was felt she needed a scan, which she had to wait til Mon to access.

UncertainSmile Mon 20-Jul-15 15:44:44

The British public don't deserve the NHS. They abuse it; get pissed, fall over then call an ambulance, book appointments then don't turn up, lie that they're housebound when they're not, demand equipment then don't use it, try to get paracetamol and OTC stuff like loperamide on prescription, stockpile drawers full of medication that has to be thrown away when it expires, attend A&E then whinge that they can't get home again 'without an ambulance'. Another example; I know a paramedic who spent most of a night at the weekend being called to people who had stuffed themselves at Eid, then had dialled 999 with abdo pain. Fucking hell!
When it's all privatised and run by that beardie cunt Branson, the great British public will realise what it's lost. It'll be too late then. Loads of the NHS staff I know are off sick with stress, or burnt out and desperate to leave.

scarlets Mon 20-Jul-15 15:44:51

She made a mistake in comparing herself to a retail manager (if that's what she did) because readers are bound to point out the obvious truths about earning potential, job security, prestige, and pensions, and the fact that retail management is stressful and target-driven so maybe merits a decent wage.

Something needs to be done about patient outcomes at the weekebd, but the majority of NHS staff work hard already. Most can't do more! A 24/7 NHS sounds lovely, but needs extra staff, and not just docs and nurses.

Ubik1 Mon 20-Jul-15 15:47:04

I think it's totally worth running a seven day service. So much better for patients. the OOH service is expensive and it's ridiculous that certain departments are just closed on a Saturday and Sunday.

hibbledibble Mon 20-Jul-15 15:47:42

I'm also confused by why they're up in arms about doing a 7 day working week when the rest of the UK workforce has shifted that way already

Doctors already work a seven day week, what they resent is the constant belittling by Jeremy Hunt, and being told they should do something which they are already doing. Who do you think sees you in A&E if you pitch up at the weekend? Other people gave already got there before me about the NHS needing more other staff at weekends too (nurses, radiographers, porters etc).

I think the majority of the public would be surprised at how little doctors earn. The basic starting salary is around 22k. To reach consultant level (and a much better salary) it takes lots of hard work, many years, and many exams. These exams have a very high failure rate, and have to be paid out of doctors' pockets.

UncertainSmile Mon 20-Jul-15 15:48:24

So, are you all volunteering to pay extra tax to pay for the 7 day set up? Thought not.

littlegreen66 Mon 20-Jul-15 15:54:40

YANBU to be confused, because Jeremy Hunt has been spinning misinformation - whether this is ignorance or mendacity is debatable and not for this thread.

However Y would be BVU to think that making NHS doctors contractually obliged to work weekends (as opposed to just working weekends) is going to solve anything at all about the state of the NHS.

DoingTheBestICan Mon 20-Jul-15 15:58:40

Rather than having to pay more tax I think drunks should be charged a token fee of say £20 if they get that pissed at the weekends they use vital services spewing everywhere, that could then be used to fund a proper 7 day service.
Maybe people should be fined for not turning up for appts too.

UncertainSmile Mon 20-Jul-15 16:00:02

The odd £20 from pissheads in A&E is hardly going to fund anything.

UncertainSmile Mon 20-Jul-15 16:04:39

It's like the long wait for a GP appointment thing. A lot of the problem is people visiting their GP with self-limiting stuff like colds, flu, earache, sore throats etc; plus the usual suspects that attend every week because they really have no capacity to self-care for anything. Add to that the dopey fuckers that get sunburn on the first hot day of the year because they don't believe in sun cream over factor 2.

wonkylegs Mon 20-Jul-15 16:06:20

The letter is part of a reaction by drs to Jeremy Hunt wanting to change part of the consultants contract, removing the option for consultants to opt out of weekend working and drawing a direct correlation with this option and an increase in patient deaths for weekend admissions.
Hunt has deliberately and cynically drawn this link despite it actually having no factual basis. Consultants can opt out but very few do, acute specialities already do provide a 7-day service and the writers of the research that hunt refers to themselves say that this is not a causative effect of a lack of consultants and that is a misrepresentation of the data.
Routine care provided on a 7 day basis in pilot areas actually proved to have very poor uptake with as many missed appointments as mon-fri.
A 7 day a week service would rely on further investment to provide full support and services but Hunt has only proposed that senior drs do more for the same pay, provide services that wouldn't function because they aren't properly funded or resourced and all of that to be done for an overall budget cut. So a 7 day service that he describes is not supported by his actions and looking to other countries with a full 7 day service you will find it makes no difference to the mortality rate.
The reason pay is brought up is because actually the NHS generally gets a good deal out of its doctors, compared with other similarly qualified professions and with drs in other 1st world countries they are cheap. The NHS relies on dedicated staff who often do more than they are contracted to do because they care. Forget the headline crap of lazy overpaid doctors/nurses/GPs etc I'm sure there are one or two but the vast majority are currently overworked, underpaid and wondering why they should continue to put up with the nasty sustained attack on them by Mr Hunt. The NHS is facing a recruitment crisis because who the hell wants to go to work for less than market rate, for long unsociable hours (DH works at least 60hrs a week when not on call, more when on) in a stressful job (peoples lives in their hands and all that) whilst being vilified by politicians & the press .... We know of many who have gone abroad and many who are thinking what's the point....

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