To not understand why the SNP are so anti EVEL?

[ninaricci]

They have always abstained from voting (except on fox hunting ) on EVEL.

It's so hypocritical.

[SunsetSongster]

They wouldn't get to vote on things like the nhs which affects funding for Scotland (there's a link between the two) under the current plans. I don't think they should have stuck to what they said over fox hunting though.

[DisappointedOne]

I'm anti EVEL because it's not actually EVEL.

[SunsetSongster]

Also if fox hunting for through it might have made the tories more unpopular at the next election!

[JackSkellington]

Possibly because a lot of English laws will have a knock-on effect on rUK, sooner or later. But I do see the point with fox hunting, it's horrific no matter which part of the UK it happens in. And hopefully if the amendment doesn't go through it will also pave the way for a complete ban in Scotland and elsewhere.

[Scoobydoo8]

OMG this makes me scared for Scotland's future - the yah booh, style of politics makes me shudder.
Na, na, na, na naaa. We've got lots of MPs.

Nicola Sturgeon is an MSP, she should keep out of Westminster. And act like an adult.

[Coffeethrowtrampbitch]

You must not be aware that every amendment proposed to the Scotland Bill by the SNP, who have 56 MP's in Westminster, have been voted down by the Tories, who have 1 Scottish MP.

This includes the right of Scotland to hold an independence referendum, something which was promised as a power by the Conservatives, and then voted down by them in the Scotland Bill after the election.

Scotland already has MP's not elected in Scotland making decisions on purely Scottish matters, EVEL is being proposed in case Scotland do the same to England. It has never actually happened.

So I'm sorry MP's from outside your country might vote to prevent you torturing animals for sport. I hope you feel sorry for me that MP's from a different country have voted on a huge amount of legislation that will affect mine and my children's futures for years.

Care to swap?

[ninaricci]

This includes the right of Scotland to hold an independence referendum, something which was promised as a power by the Conservatives

When was that promised?

[Behooven]

I though Nicola Sturgeon stated categorically during the election that this was not about an independence campaign? First I've heard that the conservatives made any such promise as one of the powers in the Smith commission.

[ninaricci]

But the change they were voting against is legal in Scotland!

[SquirrelledAway]

So much for Salmond's so-called "once in a lifetime" referendum last year then.

[Scoobydoo8]

The problem is that Uk taxpayers' money all goes in the same pot. So for example, if high speed 2 is only going from London to Brum why should my tax pay for it. It does, so therefore my mp can vote on it.

[JackSkellington]

Exactly what you said, Coffee.

[ninaricci]

The problem is that Uk taxpayers' money all goes in the same pot.

Thank you Scooby, that makes sense.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

I was only half-listening at the time, but I'm pretty sure I heard something on the radio about some list of Bills that supposedly had nothing to do with Scotland, but which when looked at more closely a substantial number did affect Scotland. Hence Sturgeon not being keen on Scottish MPs being blocked from voting on them.

[ninaricci]

I am Scottish coffee. I hope you aren't insinuating that anyone who criticises the SNP cannot be Scottish?

[tabulahrasa]

Because in a union of countries...what Westminster does is almost always guaranteed to affect the other countries indirectly.

Also, this situation has been going on for years, Scottish MPs voting on policy that doesn't directly affect Scotland yet it's suddenly an issue because they're SNP MPs.

It takes powers away from Scottish MPs without giving Scotland any significant extra powers...so basically Scottish MPs will be second tier ones and MSPs don't get more power, so it decreases representation in Scotland.

[WhereYouLeftIt]

Ah, found the story |(Nicola Sturgeon calls English votes plan 'unacceptable')on the BBC news website. She is quoted as saying "Of the 20 Bills listed by the UK government as not extending to Scotland, no fewer than 13 of them did,"

[ninaricci]

Also, this situation has been going on for years, Scottish MPs voting on policy that doesn't directly affect Scotland yet it's suddenly an issue because they're SNP MPs.

The SNP have always made such a fuss over abstaining though. That's why I

[ninaricci]

Thanks for the link!

[tabulahrasa]

"The SNP have always made such a fuss over abstaining though."

Yes because they were only really interested in independence...post referendum they have to actually work in the system we have IMO, because Scotland voted to stay in that system.

[Toadinthehole]

Excluding Scottish MPs from voting on budgetary changes that affect Scotland would be outrageous. However, that is clearly not what is proposed.

The proposal is that Scottish MPs do not vote on matters that do not affect Scotland. It follows that if Scotland was affected, its MPs would get a vote.

The budget is set for the UK as a whole, and Scotland is allocated a proportional block of funding. It is up to the Scottish government (acting within its powers under the Scotland Act) how that funding is spent. Therefore Scottish MPs would get to vote on the budget (and budgetary changes).

It's no different from devolution, just an awful lot cheaper.

Coffeethrowtrampbitch
The Scotland Act determines what lawmaking powers are delegated from Parliament at Westminster to the Scottish parliament. It follows that all Westminster MPs get a vote on amendments to it.

As for the power to hold independence referenda? Really? How often? Every week? I don't believe the Tories made any such promise, but I can imagine lots of people in the indy blogosphere claiming a promise was made on zero evidence.

[ninaricci]

That's an interesting way of putting it, tabulah, thanks.

[susyot]

If EVEL is introduced could we ever have a Scottish, Welsh or N. Irish Prime Minister, Chancellor or head of any other departments? After all if MPs from those countries are barred from committees which write the legislation which is intended to be an English only law how could they possibly introduce or champion the bill?

EVEL is not just about voting it's about creating a secondary class of MP. I think we tried this before and didn't work out too well.

I'm English and I think the way the Tories are behaving is a threat to the union of the UK. I was appalled when Cameron made the EVEL announcement the day after the Scottish referendum. I am not opposed to constitutional reform but it needs to be examined on a cross party basis and introduced as primary legislation.

I think it is very telling that they are changing the rules on how the commons is run and have stated that they are doing it this way as otherwise may be challenged in the law courts (the courts can not be used to challenge the internal rules of how the commons is run)

[Toadinthehole]

Given the extent of devolution of certain powers to Scotland, it's arguable that it is already inappropriate for a Scot to be a minister of certain government departments.

The same applies to 'second class MPs'. Both those lines were crossed in 1999.