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To not want a child who has been expelled for serious physical offences in my child's class?

(68 Posts)
Iguanaleader Fri 10-Jul-15 06:24:04

Name changed of obvious reasons.

Child has stabbed a teacher with a compass, threatened a teacher with a knife at previous school (we know someone there and child is open about it) and generally swears and spits at staff and is disruptive in lessons.

Child has been at my child's school two days and has already spat in a teachers face and is very disruptive in lessons.

My child has sn including hypersensitivity and came home and cried last night because a) dc1 is frightened and the child is parading round the classroom correcting children's work, shouting etc and b) the noise physically hurts to dc.

I know they have to recieve an education but surely if a child is expelled from a school for physical violence there are more suitable options than just banging them into another class in another school where they will no doubt be expelled and shifted on again.

It's not fair on the child being expelled or anyone else in the class.

I know iabu but would you honestly want them someone who had threatened someone with a knife and physically attacked teachers in your children's class?

Teabagbeforemilk Fri 10-Jul-15 06:28:50

In my experience there is little you can do. We removed dd from school due bullying which included being attacked with a pair of sisscors. The school were shit. We home schooled then found a new school for dd. 6 months later, the boy who bullied her appeared in her new school as part of aanaged move. As he was already in by the time we found out. There was nothimg we could do. He has assaulted dd another 4 times and had police involvement. He has stopping doing it to dd and moved on to another child. He knows we will call the police again.

They are in year 6 and the school have been pretty poor at dealing with it.

Yanbu to not want hom in your child's class. At all.

Teabagbeforemilk Fri 10-Jul-15 06:31:17

On the the last school year there has been 6 assaults on pupils plus he threatened to kill a year 2 child and rape another year 6 child.

I think in our case the school are hoping to just get him to the end of the school year as they move to secondary and it isn't their problem.

Iguanaleader Fri 10-Jul-15 06:34:06

That's my worry teabag. My child already has a history of being bullied physically and verbally and is being verbally bullied by a group of boys at the moment. Due to SN my child is an easy target. Honestly I don't want to be waiting for a call said child has stabbed a teacher or child everyday sad

CamelHump Fri 10-Jul-15 06:37:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iguanaleader Fri 10-Jul-15 06:41:50

It is secondary school Camel and child has already been permanently excluded from one school and simply picked up and dumped in an other because that's going to make the child less angry and violent isn't it sad.

Teabagbeforemilk Fri 10-Jul-15 06:43:15

Record everything and report every incidence to the school. Ask them if they are recording these instances and tell them you are too. Ask them to confirm in writing that they are.

In my experience, if you wait, your first few meetings will revolve around the fact that it's not as bad as you think and they have no record. We went through hell earlier this year. Even though this school knew he bullied dd at a previous school they tried to deny it, then denied lots of incidents. When they realised I had proof they invited their union rep to the meeting. Who handed them their asses for how badly they handled it.

It was only when the police stepped in the school actually did something, but the HT tried to get us to drop it.

They did the same to another mother. Told her this child didn't have issues with any other child than hers, not realising that she is my friends.

Dd is nt but her mental health has suffered terribly. She works with the senco and we are meeting later to discuss how camhs can help her. It's been awful. I am sorry you are going through this.

Schools really do not want to exclude pupils and often work in other pupils worst intrest to avoid doing it

annandale Fri 10-Jul-15 06:44:07

Bloody hell.

What are the school doing about the existing bullying?

There's no money but there are such things as schools for children with emotional and behavioural disorders. I guess he is not severely enough affected, or there are no places, or both. However, the more written evidence the school has about how he is not dealing with the current settings, the better.

In the meantime, I would focus on the current bullying, have they got any coherent plan on how it is going to stop, like tomorrow??

Teabagbeforemilk Fri 10-Jul-15 06:45:40

We are also banking on the fact that their secondary does not tolerate this sort of behaviour. So will deal with it. Chances are dds bully will be put in another school, with no help and more children will be at risk.

LilyMayViolet Fri 10-Jul-15 06:46:40

I would imagine they are waiting for a place at a pupil referral unit if he really is that troubled. I totally understand how you feel I taught a poor little lad like this years ago and was desperately sad for him but also incredibly worried for the safety of my other pupils. Fortunately a place was found for him at a specialist unit. I hope this lad gets the help and support he needs and that your son can feel safe in school again.

Teabagbeforemilk Fri 10-Jul-15 06:50:29

I hope this lad gets the help and support he needs and that your son can feel safe in school again.

This is the bit that bothers me most. By schools burying their head in the sands they are not helping anyone.

My dds bully now has 1-2-1 supervision all day. Because dd point blank refused to go back into class if he was there. The school finally offered it after we made it clear they couldn't force her to return to class. With the backing of police.

Even with the 1-2-1 he has attacked more kids. There aren't just letting the other kids down. They are letting him down too.

Iguanaleader Fri 10-Jul-15 06:52:31

With the exsisting bullying the year head and form teacher are involved but nothing more than a telling them not to do it again happens each time my dc complains.

I have found out a child has already left due to bullying not being sorted in dc1 form so I don't hold much hope.

DoraGora Fri 10-Jul-15 06:52:57

Move schools.

YoureAllABunchOfBastards Fri 10-Jul-15 06:57:15

There is very little the school can do. Currently fighting hard to avoid taking two similar to your description - we are not given any choice.

Teabagbeforemilk Fri 10-Jul-15 06:57:25

Moving schoo is risky....as we found out. Dd got a few months of happiness away from her bully. There is always the chance this can happen.

You have to tackle the school. Telling kids to stop it, may work occasionally. However, that shouldn't be repeated.

You need to meet with the school and tell them it is NOT working and want to know what they plan to do.

Hairylegs007 Fri 10-Jul-15 07:05:50

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pupil_referral_unit

The boy can go to a pupil referral unit if need be but it's a last resort. They will give managed moved to other schools first in the hope that a fresh start might help

Hairylegs007 Fri 10-Jul-15 07:07:32

Log any incidents, email them in regularly to the form tutor and head of year so you all have things in writing.

CharlesRyder Fri 10-Jul-15 07:09:29

Unfortunately SEMH provision, particularly in Primary, is just not good or freely available enough so many mainstream schools are 'left' coping with children with really complex needs.

Most children who make it to me have been to at least two mainstream schools.

CharlesRyder Fri 10-Jul-15 07:13:25

In many areas PRUs do not offer permanent placements Hairy- sometimes they are not even registered as schools so pupils cannot 'belong' to the PRU. They offer temporary education while another (often mainstream) placement is found.

SEMH/SEBD schools are quite rare (5-11 VERY rare), often full to bursting and for some perverse reason often only take boys.

Hairylegs007 Fri 10-Jul-15 07:20:27

The PRU I worked with had a mixture of very long term and short term placements

SuburbanRhonda Fri 10-Jul-15 07:24:26

I doubt the school will tell you what's going on behind the scenes. In the case I knew of, the child was kept in mainstream school because that was their best chance of being given a place in a BESD school while evidence was built up to justify the LA spending a huge amount of money on the placement. In the meantime they attended a PRU and were excluded from that.

Of course it doesn't help children and staff caught in the crossfire while the child is at mainstream. I'm not sure what the answer is sad

LastUnicorn Fri 10-Jul-15 07:26:13

I work in a PRU, none of our boys are at the level you have described. We had a boy similar and although we never perm exclude ourselves we had to find him a place elsewhere because he was so violent and disruptive.
I am very surprised these boys are getting 1-2-1, in our unit we never go 1-2-1 with violent children for our own safety.

bikeandrun Fri 10-Jul-15 07:27:28

I am going into school to find out about a girl that has attacked my son for the second time. She is obviously very troubled ( lac) the first time I was called by the head given lots of reassurance about how the school were dealing with this poor girls issues. School have obviously not told me any information about this girl but from what she has told my son and others she has been a victim of appalling neglect and abuse. She seems to have a great foster family and I hope things work out for her,*but*yesterday she threw a large stone at my sons head( luckily she missed)They are in y4 may have two more years of this. The behaviour in my childs school is excellent, very little experience of troubled children. I want this girl to have the opportunity to benefit from a normal school environment but I also want my son to be safe.

LastUnicorn Fri 10-Jul-15 07:27:40

Oh and the boy can't just "go to a pupil referral unit" he would have to be requested, looked in to, interviewed, interviewed parents, a trial, settling in time and most likely a reduced or offsite time table for a violent child which means he would likely be roaming the streets for most of the week.

MythicalKings Fri 10-Jul-15 07:30:51

YANBU. Teachers and children should be able to go into school without the fear of violence.

I worked for some years at a school for DCs with challenging behaviour and the staff ratio was enough to keep us as safe as possible. Some DCs just do not belong in mainstream schools for the safety of staff and other DCs.

IMO teachers should be able to refuse to teach violent DCs who had attacked them. That's how it used to be and it concentrated the minds of the LEA very quickly.

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