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To think poor students will still be able to go to uni and now it will be fairer on ALL students !

(360 Posts)
bereal7 Wed 08-Jul-15 15:01:52

I've read a few ridiculous comments from posters complaining that their children won't be able to afford university. This is bullocks ; the loans will still be there and even higher now. On top of this, they don't have to be repaid until you are earning more than £21k. Therefore, there is no reason why poorer students can't afford university.

If anything, this is now a fair system. It was not right that some students could get such high grants and loans that they don't have to work whilst other only got the bare minimum and have to work - sacrificing their studies - just because their parents earnt more. Those who didn't have to work would be more likely to pass and have higher paying jobs but not have to pay back as much. It was a ridiculous and unfair system which penalised people whose parents were earning more on paper and I welcome this change. Everyone who wants to , and gets the grades, can go to uni but will have to pay back the loans the same as everyone else once they graduate. Aibu to think poorer students will still be able to go university?

So annoyed by the comments and hysteria so I'm sure there's a few typos in there - apologies

Dawndonnaagain Wed 08-Jul-15 15:05:43

Hmm, so a student will be repaying the equivalent of a mortgage as soon as they are able. How will they be able to access a mortgage later on? How many 25 year olds are there with fifty grand loans? Why should those wishing to teach our children or heal our sick pay for the privilege, particulary as those currently in parliament were in receipt of free higher education.

Dawndonnaagain Wed 08-Jul-15 15:06:43

Oh, and they're removing disabled students allowance too, so my son, for example, who is unable to work in the same way as other students, will manage how? In what way is that fair?

QuiteLikely5 Wed 08-Jul-15 15:07:52

I did not hear him say he was removing disabled allowance. Is there a link?

Does your son not get disability allowance to cover extra costs?

MrsTerryPratchett Wed 08-Jul-15 15:08:24

I live in North America, where people pay a lot for university. Rich kids' parents generally save up and pay. Poor kids get into massive student loans, which they never get on top of. Careers like SW and teaching (generally omen's jobs) pay badly in comparison to engineering so those people are saddled for much longer. Even if you don't earn enough to repay, the loan is still there, affecting your credit-worthiness.

Massive debt is not the route to social mobility. Free university might not be either but debt certainly isn't.

Cynically, I also think it's a great way for capitalists to introduce children to crippling debt early so they get used to the idea. 'Hey, you're going to be in debt for the rest of your life, enjoy!'.

QuiteLikely5 Wed 08-Jul-15 15:08:30

They do not take student loans into account when assessing mortgage affordability

ItsAllAboutEve Wed 08-Jul-15 15:08:30

All students should have access to free education.

WhyBeHappyWhenYouCouldBeNormal Wed 08-Jul-15 15:08:43

If your families household income is £10,000 a year then it is very unlikely that you are going to support your child taking on such a huge debt. The child themselves is likely to think 'i can't afford this' and it seems bizarre that whilst the government is spouting for us all to cut our cloth etc. that we expect 17 year olds to apply for uni and brazenly accept 50k of debt upwards.

It may look fair on paper, but it is not fair in practice and will not widen participation. Maintenance grants always helped to reassure lower income working class parents that their children could go to university, and now there is no such encouragement.

This will be a debt for life with no chance of most graduates paying it back - so why are the government doing it? it won't make them any money, just part of their social cleansing...

MrsTerryPratchett Wed 08-Jul-15 15:08:50

*women obviously

QuiteLikely5 Wed 08-Jul-15 15:08:53

They do until age 18. That's fair enough.

Dawndonnaagain Wed 08-Jul-15 15:09:21

He does at the moment, but it's going next year, so neither of my daughters will be in receipt of it. Wonder if they can get dd's wheelchair behind a bar?

QuiteLikely5 Wed 08-Jul-15 15:09:42

They can get a job to fund their way through uni too

QuiteLikely5 Wed 08-Jul-15 15:12:01

I think this budget was about increasing reliability on ones self and stepping back from state reliance.

Dawndonnaagain Wed 08-Jul-15 15:12:14

That decision was taken last year, in October and has been kept fairly well hidden. There was talk of students with more complex needs being able to keep some of their help but nothing as yet. Still scouring to look for more detail.

WhyBeHappyWhenYouCouldBeNormal Wed 08-Jul-15 15:12:30

Not all units allow you to have a job whilst studying QuiteLikely5 - or what work you can get is intermittent/irregular/2hrs a week etc - otherwise it starts impacting on your study time, so whats the point of taking on the debt at all if you can't even focus on your work?

The stereotype of the student with a lot of free time is largely a myth... particularly if you are aiming for a 2.1 or 1st.

GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter Wed 08-Jul-15 15:12:51

It's not a fair system, because high earning graduates (the kind who can do the unpaid internships in London to boost their cvs, who have the confidence and self-belief to apply for graduate schemes etc) pay off their student loans earlier than those who struggle along on 21/22k for years.

The richest continue pay less in this system; all that's changed is that the poorest will pay even more.

Dawndonnaagain Wed 08-Jul-15 15:13:16

They do not take student loans into account when assessing mortgage affordability
Yes they do. There was a time when they couldn't, but they do now and have done for some time.

bereal7 Wed 08-Jul-15 15:14:01

They will cope the same way the rest of us have had to cope ; get a job.

Besides, the loans which people can borrow are going up. I believe it was £8k and I know most universities also give grants to people from low income families. Therefore, they aren't actually loosing any money - they will still be very well off during that period but it means they will have to pay the money back. Like the rest of us.

Not everything is free in this life.

WhyBeHappyWhenYouCouldBeNormal Wed 08-Jul-15 15:14:01

Theres a current consultation on changes to the disabled students allowance - the changes were delayed for a year to allow for this consultation to take place, which is what all the noise was about last year.

They are taking away the allowance, and instead telling universities they should be providing support instead - which is like the government removing tax credits and telling businesses the make up the difference.

It won't happen.

GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter Wed 08-Jul-15 15:14:12

It was also announced that institutions with high quality teaching would be able to increase the fees charged.

Dawndonnaagain Wed 08-Jul-15 15:14:24

They can get a job to fund their way through uni too
Yes, there are lots of jobs available for those with disabilities, that's why you see so many in bars, waiting in restaurants, working in offices and supermarkets...

19lottie82 Wed 08-Jul-15 15:15:27

Hmm, so a student will be repaying the equivalent of a mortgage as soon as they are able. How will they be able to access a mortgage later on?

Student Loan debt isn't taken in to consideration like normal (immediate) debt when you apply for a mortgage. I have an 18k student loan outstanding, and got approved for a mortgage last week. They just look at your monthly payments (about £45 a month for me) when calculating your affordability figure.

WhyBeHappyWhenYouCouldBeNormal Wed 08-Jul-15 15:15:31

Empathy bereal?

Welshmaenad Wed 08-Jul-15 15:15:38

Not all students can work their way through uni, and not all students are assessed on their parents income.

I'm a mature student and my grant was awarded on our lie household income as a family of four. I'm already taking on a lot of debt in relation to tuition fee loans etc, and that bill is just going to increase if my grant becomes a loan in my final year. In years 2 and 3 I'm expected to spend 4/5 months on a 40 hour a week work placement in addition to all my academic work and looking after 2 children, one of whom is disabled - there is no time in the day for me to have a student job.

All so I can qualify as a social worker and look forward to fixed 1% pay rises and the risk of jail time of the shot hits the fan.


GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter Wed 08-Jul-15 15:15:59

I've also met many students from disadvantaged backgrounds who believe that you have to have £27k to hand over on day 1 of their degree. The headline of 'grants for poorest students stopped' will only put them off even more.

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