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To feel that the "No" vote in Greece is the best thing for everyone in Europe?

(15 Posts)
egbertthered Tue 07-Jul-15 21:03:41

So, Greece said "Oxi" to the EU's/IMF deal on Sunday, and I think it will be great for everyone in Europe. The Greeks will get back control of their currency and can inflate themselves silly, which will make Greece very attractive for tourism, which as I understand is its biggest industry.

Also, this vote may kill radical leftism permanently. This vote has saved the SYRIZA government, allowing Alexis Tsipras to go and act in a very left wing fashion, which will end inevitably in disaster. When that happens, he, his party and his ideology will be tainted so badly that hopefully a free-marketeer will jump up and save Greece.

This also will work well for us in our negotiations, someone made the comment "For the EU to lose one country is unfortunate, for it to lose two is carelessness,", so we'll have a lot more leverage in our negotiations. Finally, it spells the end of the euro, which will save a lot of other European countries from failure, and with the euro gone, the EU may cease to exist as anything more than a free trade area.

So, I think this is great, but many people I've spoken to don't...AIBU?

BigPawsBrown Tue 07-Jul-15 21:04:30

biscuit

FarFromAnyRoad Tue 07-Jul-15 21:05:31

Good for you. Have you really thought this through?

egbertthered Tue 07-Jul-15 21:09:21

Thought what through?

wtfisgoingonhere Tue 07-Jul-15 21:10:53

It spells the end of the euro? hmm

When I saw the title I agreed with you based on friends who live in Greece who agreed neither option was great but no was a better option for the future than yes overall. ...

I dont understand your reasoning for it though

iisme Tue 07-Jul-15 21:11:56

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. So heartening to see the Greeks reject the neo-liberal austerity agenda. I hope this is the start of changes in Europe.

iisme Tue 07-Jul-15 21:12:49

But yeah, I do agree with others that announcing the end of the Euro is a little premature!

egbertthered Tue 07-Jul-15 21:15:15

wtfisgoingonhere Greece will be ejected from the Eurozone, that much is true. What many people and economists and EU commissioners believe is that other countries who have suffered because of it (Spain, Portugal, Italy, maybe even France) will drop out. And that leaves Germany and a few small countries, at which points the Germans will probably call it quits.

MollyMaDurga Tue 07-Jul-15 21:17:17

Greece will not be saved by a free marketeer,this whole crisis started with so called free market capitalism. I certainly hope this will not spell the end of the left because they seem like the only people with a bit of sense, and heart.

egbertthered Tue 07-Jul-15 21:20:00

Molly, the crisis was caused by rampant borrowing and and huge corruption and ineptitude in the Greek government, not by capitalism.

MollyMaDurga Tue 07-Jul-15 21:22:37

Wrong. Follow the money, you're not taking this far enough. Rampant borrowing by rampant lending in a system that has spun out of control. . That's capitalism.

egbertthered Tue 07-Jul-15 21:25:22

Capitalism is the system where business is largely free to produce as much as it wants and economies are consumer driven, that has nothing to do with borrowing. Borrowing comes from spending, which is a wholly socialist principle

MollyMaDurga Tue 07-Jul-15 21:33:44

Yeah right, I think not.

EllieFAntspoo Tue 07-Jul-15 21:54:28

A couple of common misconceptions...

1. Greece cannot be ejected from the EU without their consent. There is nothing in EU law that allows some countries to expel a member country. If Greece choose to leave, they may do so, but if they choose to stay in the EU, and not pay its debt to the ECB, that debt is removed from the ECBs books and returned to member states' central banks, balance sheets. So Greece has all the cards in that regard.

2. 'Free market' capitalism has not existed in Europe since WW2. There has been no such thing as a free market for some 60 years. Free market means free to find fair market value. That does not happen and cannot happen in any system based on central planning, because central planning required intervention in the market place.

EllieFAntspoo Tue 07-Jul-15 21:58:47

Capitalism is the system where business is largely free to produce as much as it wants and economies are consumer driven, that has nothing to do with borrowing. Borrowing comes from spending, which is a wholly socialist principle.

No. Spending by government is called socialism. Spending by people is called consumerism. It's what happens in a capitalist society. Banks earn money by encouraging people to get into debt. Borrowing money is the epitome of a capitalist system. The insidious thing is that banks are underpinned by governments, and that at the very least is cronyism, and is moving quickly towards fascism.

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