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to not let ex see DS again.

(26 Posts)
YUDOTHIS Wed 01-Jul-15 15:07:54

Hi all, I have 2 children Ds who is nearly five and dd by my current partner, she is 14months.
I fell pregnant at 15 and gave birth at just shy of 16 (birthday is in aug DS's birthday is next month) , by my then boyfriend who was almost 18 when DS was born. Boyfriend split up with me when I was 27 weeks pregnant because he wasn't ready, then decided after i gave birth that he WAS in fact ready after I told him that I wasn't bloody ready either but I had no choice but we didn't get back together at that point. My mother and I fought like cat and dog and still do, our relationship issues are deeply deeply ingrained and cannot be solved. Things came to a head when I had ex over visiting and my mother hit me while my DS was on the sofa with ex less than half a foot away from me holding 5week old DS. I moved out and moved into a hostel with DS who by this time was 6 weeks old, when ex saw that the hostel wasn't nice to say the least he offered me to move in with him in his rented flat until i got a place, I had the bedroom and DS was in a moses basket in bedroom with me while ex slept on the floor in the living room. ex and I were pleasant to each other and never had a cross word. We did our best to split childcare (i'd just signed up to an apprenticeship 6hrs a week and was looking for a job as my aunt had offered to look after DS for me for £5 a week or the nearest i could afford but until then no help)it was difficult as he worked 30hrs a week at his dads business but things were pretty good. we decided to give "Us" another shot and went for it. after just a fortnight of being in a relationship he kicked off at me massively over a broken mug (nothing special- it was actually one of my OWN mugs!) and started calling me what a dog wouldn't lick. I told him to leave me alone and i didnt have to hear his crap and that it was inappropriate in front of our son more so than it was anyway.I got DS dressed and packed up some clothes and went to leave. Ex struck me 3 times, in the throat/face area twice and in the stomach and then pinned me to the floor until I headbutted him and kicked him off. DS was in his pram just 2ft away from me while this all happened, I up got walked toward DS and ex blocked me and attempted to push me to the floor again, I grabbed him and pushed with all of my strength in the opposite direction of DS. while ex was on the floor i ran out of the house with a screaming DS and never looked back. I didn't report to the police but did tell my GP and womens aid so theres a paper trail. Ex did not attempt to contact me after and hasn't for the last 4.5 years. DP and I have a brilliant life together, I've worked hard and just been licensed in the profession i got an apprenticeship in all those years ago and also have a second career which is reasonably successful, we're a family and DS's "real" dad is rarely mentioned but he does know about him. a week ago ex knocked on my front door (dont know how he tracked me down) demanding to see DS. I gave him my phone number (not contract so can be changed easily) and told him to call me the next day as I needed to have a huge think about it. I talked to DP about it, DP and I have been together since DS was just 8 months old, DS calls DP dad (not something I encouraged but he still alternated between "dada" and oh's name and settled with dad) it has been loosely explained to DS that OH is not his "DNA dad"(Ds's name for him, not that he knows what DNA is!) and I did tell DS that his real dad did some very silly things and thats why DS does not see him but obviously i cannot say too much to him, hes nearly 5 i didn't know how better to explain to him!. DS is a happy, content child, has his tantrums as does any young child but on the whole is a lovely bright boy who wouldn't harm a fly no he just runs from them DP and I thought it'd be an idea to introduce DS to his dad slowly as i never want DS to resent me for keeping his dad away from him when he tried to make amends (Even though i've not had an apology at all it could be manipulated by ex to look that way). We go to the park every Tuesday after school as DP finishes work early and its a nice family outing, so we decided that tuesday (yesterday) ex could tag along. Ex and DS seemed to be getting along fine so I popped to the shop with DD leaving ex, DP and DS to it. I got back to DP and ex fighting and a crying DS as DS had kicked a ball too hard and fallen over, DP told DS that its ok, we all mess up sometimes and he should just try again. DS said "ok dad" Ex went mental and said something to the effect of "No, he's not your fucking dad I'm your dad, its not ok you can't even kick a ball in a straight line! Anyone would think you were a girl!"
DS got upset and obviously DP defended DS which lead to an argument. DP tried to walk off with DS to come and find me but ex just kept yelling insults and causing a scene and upsetting DS further so DP couldn't bite his tongue Not that i'd have been able to either I got there and ex called me and DP a whole host of disgusting names and barged into DP and walked off muttering "I'll see you pricks in court" DS is terrifed that we will make him see him again or that he will come back and hurt him. I don't know what to do tbh if ex does go for contact? Would he get it? I don't even want him to have supervised contact and DS doesn't want to see him!

YUDOTHIS Wed 01-Jul-15 15:08:53

FYI I see I used OH in their aswell. sorry i tried not to (DP is all i see here) OH means other half, OH and DP are the same person!

Shannaratiger Wed 01-Jul-15 15:13:00

YANBU, don't let him anywhere near any of you!

Finola1step Wed 01-Jul-15 15:15:19

Sit tight for now. You did the right thing in extending the olive branch. No one can say that you didn't try.

There would be no harm in you contacting a family solicitor in your area for advice. You may even get a half hour free consultation.

It is probably all big words on your ex's part.

YUDOTHIS Wed 01-Jul-15 15:16:28

I really don't plan on it but am worried about repercussions in the future. (in case ex contacts adult DS with a bunch of lies) and am also worried he will try for contact and get it

BarbarianMum Wed 01-Jul-15 15:17:16

flowers you poor thing, what a turd he is. sad

I would find a solicitor (but not instruct them so you don't need to pay - maybe just go for the half an hour free that so many offer). Then wait until you hear that he has applied to the courts for contact (this is actually quite unlikely) then respond through your solicitor.

Would you consider going to the police with a view to taking out an injunction to keep him away from you? At least ring 101 and talk this over wih them (more trail).

BarbarianMum Wed 01-Jul-15 15:18:07

Also, tell the school that your ds cannot be collected by this man (just in case).

YUDOTHIS Wed 01-Jul-15 15:24:27

Barbarianmum I did let them know (I did it this morning) as i've heard many horror stories, i didn't know solicitors offered a free half hour consultations i'll ring around tomorrow(DS is home and i dont want to make these calls in front of him) and see if any do in my localish area x

VincentVonGogh Wed 01-Jul-15 15:38:23

Hi op
Yanbu. I wouldn't allow any further contact.
Spookily similar story to mine (though I was 14, just turned 15 at birth ).
Ex was violent, careless with my dd , sporadic with contact and abusive so I stopped contact. Was taken to court and he was granted 1 visit per week supervised at a contact centre. He never showed and we never heard from him again.
I can't imagine that any court would grant unsupervised access in your case and he sounds the type who won't want to put himself out too much.
As for worrying about future repercussions, your DS has a whole lot of time ahead to make his own mind up and understand the situation.
I heard through gossip, fb etc, he went around saying that he'd have a great relationship with her when she got to teens and I wasn't standing in the way. Funnily enough she is 19 now and I fear for him if he tries to make contact, she will rip him to shreds!
I never bad mouthed (he just didn't figure really)she just made her own mind up based on the loving father/daughter relationship she's had with her SD.
Good for you in gaining your qualification flowers

wannaBe Wed 01-Jul-15 15:43:38

I wouldn't ever condone any kind of violence, however it sounds as if you were all so incredibly young when this happened and that you were both living pretty chaotic lives at the time when you first had your ds. You did wel to leave the relationship at the time and to your ex's credit he didn't pursue you when you did.

There is no doubt that your ex reacted badly yesterday, however, I imagine that not having seen his child for 4.5 years it would bring the truth home somewhat forcefully to then be left with this child and another man who the child is calling "dad." IMO it was a bad idea to leave your ds with your ex (who you don't know any more) and your dp (who is now playing the father role in his life and who your ex would see as having taken his place).

And tbh, you are all still incredibly young, and there is a world of difference between 18 and 23 maturity-wise, equally between 15/20, and there are very young children in the equation here who need to be considered.

Before jumping in to get some kind of restraining order or preventing ds having a relationship with his father you should all try to come to some kind of agreement on how a relationship can develop, possibly in a supervised setting to start with in order that your ds gets to know his dad and vice versa, and if that works out then moving on to an arrangement where they have a relationship independent of you. If your ex proves to be a risk to your ds then this arrangement can be reviewed, but tbh it would be in everyone's interests to be able to sit down and have a conversation with someone impartial such as a mediator to decide the best way forward for your ds.

I am not minimising what happened when DS was a baby fwiw, but tbh you were both barely children yourselves at the time. Age brings maturity and with that comes responsibility.

TRexingInAsda Wed 01-Jul-15 15:54:05

Oh dear, well you did your best, let him take you to court if he really wants to, and see what the court thinks of that performance. From his past form, I doubt he will even bother to go to court tbh. If he approaches you again, tell him there will be no informal agreement to contact, and if he wants contact then go to court and ask for it.

Finola1step Wed 01-Jul-15 15:57:20

Is your ex's name on your ds' birth certificate?

YUDOTHIS Wed 01-Jul-15 15:57:55

I fully get what you're saying, wannabe, And would've felt very very differently if it was just DP he'd lashed out at. however he verbally attacked my almost 5yr old son and then acted like a lunatic in front of him and my DD just outside of a park causing upset to my DS more than anyone (he thinks its his fault), my DD and everyone around. that is not ok and I don't feel like I can chance it happening again. Ex has shown absolutely no remorse for what he did and has not tried to contact me since. My brain and heart are telling me to fight ex with all that i have if need be to keep him away from DS to limit damage that ex will no doubt cause DS but I have this niggling feeling that DS will hold it against me while older if ex gets in contact and feeds him a pack of lies. I know we were young but as an adult (he was 18 by the time the attack happened) surely you'd know better than to attack the mother of your child in front of said baby? and surely you'd expect your child to not know, remember or fully acknowledge you? DS was lovely to ex, even offering him some of his biscuits and telling him about his favorite cartoon, superhero and colors. I dont know how you can repay such vulnerability and sweetness with verbal abuse.
VVG- I'm sorry your ex was such a dick and glad your DD sees him for what he is flowers

YUDOTHIS Wed 01-Jul-15 15:59:33

Fionola- No, ex and I were not married (obviously) and due to that I was unable to register him as DS's dad when registering DS's birth. (Ex didn't come with me to register DS and I didn't think it mattered anyway- my parents were together until i was 10 and my dad didn't go on my BC)

APlaceOnTheCouch Wed 01-Jul-15 16:08:48

I'm hoping when you say your DP and ex were fighting that you mean arguing and not physically? Both your ex and your DP acted irresponsibly in front of your DS. I know you say your DP was provoked but everyone should have been aware it was a highly charged situation and managed it better so it wasn't as fraught for your DS.

Have you told your DS about your past relationship with his dad? It seems a giant leap for your DS to jump from an argument in a park to being terrified that he will be hurt (especially since it sounds as though your current DP was shouting and arguing too yet presumably your DS isn't frightened that he is going to hurt him?).

The best idea is to speak to a solicitor or CAB but you need to be honest about how your DP responded as I've no doubt your ex will definitely be mentioning it if this incident is used as a basis for restricting contact. If contact is continued, you really can't leave your ex and DP alone together with your DS.

I have every sympathy with you. The violence you experienced at the hands of your ex was unforgivable. And it's good that you have a paper trail from that time. However a solicitor will be able to advise on the best way to move this forward.

AngelWings74 Wed 01-Jul-15 16:17:16

The fact he's not on birth certificate means he has NO parental responsibility. He will need to apply to to court to be added to birth certificate. You did the right thing in trying to promote contact but he showed his true colours very quickly. As he has no PR he will not be allowed to collect from school or even enquire how he's doing. You can get free 30 minute legal consultation, however I would sit tight and wait for him to apply for PR and contact then seek advice. It's an expensive process and I would imagine it's unlikely that he will go through with it seeing as he hasn't bothered up until now. At least your son has a good fatherly role model in your partner. X

wannaBe Wed 01-Jul-15 16:17:25

well, I would play the reasonable one. if your ex gets back in contact, be that through the courts or otherwise then I would suggest mediation with a route to supervised contact only on the basis of the fact that your ds has no current relationship with your ex. That way you are still the one who is being reasonable and facilitating contact, and can therefore be the one who brings objections if things go wrong - iyswim.

But I would wait for him to make the move, because it sounds as if he's not the type to do so iyswim.

As your ds grows up you can tell him rightly that sometimes when people have children very young they are just not ready for the responsibility of parenthood and feel they have to walk away, that you never put barriers in his father's way, and allowed contact which was in his interests.

paulapompom Wed 01-Jul-15 16:27:52

Hi op so sorry for you ds and your dp. In view of the past I think you were very reasonable. Who just turns up after four and a half years. What was his plan, to walk up to ds and announce "hi I'm your dad "?.

Wannabe - that is what op was trying to do, come to an amicable agreement.

Anyone who screams and swears in front of a little child they haven't bothered about for years, deserves nothing imo.

Agree with pp who said seek legal advice. I would keep a log of any contact made also. flowers

YUDOTHIS Wed 01-Jul-15 16:31:27

Sorry if I made it sound like dp and ex were fighting physically, no not physically just verbal argument.
I'm trying to think of a safe way I COULD promote contact and i dont think there is x

Penfold007 Wed 01-Jul-15 16:56:46

Your ex has a legal obligation to financially support his child and wherever possible should have a relationship with his son. That said it's not always possible or even safe.

If he wants access let him go to court and then aim for supervised contact at a contact centre.

wannaBe Wed 01-Jul-15 17:00:55

I know she was but equally the situation was handled badly by all parties IMO.

This man hasn't seen his child for 4.5 years, and on the first meeting the op leaves him with the child and the man who is now the child's father figure and who he calls dad? given the manner in which the relationship ended the op had no idea whether this man was still volatile (apparently he still is) but equally I have no doubt that the dp would have reacted given that he has raised this child as his own.

if this man pursues contact in the future, it would be far better that the op seek supervised contact in somewhere like a contact centre where supervision is impartial and the true situation can be assessed. If he is still a risk to the child then contact can be stopped, or if he in fact decides not to carry on then it may just stop of its own accord.

The right thing to have done would be for the op to have stayed with her ds while they were at the park, and given she didn't, the dp should have taken the dc out of the situation, not got into a full-scale argument with the ex.

This is why contact centres exist, partly to keep the children safe but also to keep too many emotions out of the situation.

Finola1step Wed 01-Jul-15 17:10:58

As he is not on the birth certificate, your ex has no parental responsibility. I think this has been the case for dc born after 2003. One thing you can do today to set your mind at rest us to write an email to the Headteacher of your son's school. Outline that you are the only person with legal parental responsibility for our son (give full name, date of birth) and that if any person including (insert ex's name) contacts the school in anyway regarding said child, you do not give permission for information to be shared. Then type out the same info in a letter addressed to the head and attach a photocopy of the birth certificate as proof. The email is your paper trail.

This may all sound heavy handed, but the onus is on you to ensure that staff at the school are aware that your ds' biological father does not at this point in time have parents responsibility. I would also mention it to his class teacher and his new teacher next term.

Buy a notebook and start writing down events as you remember, with dates and locations if possible.

APlaceOnTheCouch Wed 01-Jul-15 17:27:24

Yudo I'm not sure at this point you can manage and organise safe contact iyswim. As a PP suggested, this is exactly the sort of situation where you would use a contact centre.

It remains to be seen if your ex tries to initiate contact again or if he decides to forget it. I x-posted with you earlier. Since he isn't on the birth certificate then he will have to go through additional steps to legally demand contact.

Undoubtedly if he does contact your DS when he is older, your ex will say you were obstructive. You can't manage what he says. You can only ensure you feel comfortable with the steps you have taken either to facilitate or obstruct contact depending on which you think would be best for your DS. flowers

YUDOTHIS Wed 01-Jul-15 17:52:41

I'm really not sure why it was wrong of me to leave DP, ex and DS together in a public place tbh. I had no idea it would escalate to what it did and had no reason to believe it would. i trust DP with my life and if anyone is to supervise a potentially dangerous person with my son I'd choose DP if possible, I can see how it might've pissed off my ex a bit but tbh its HIS fault that another man is dad to DS, if DS's dad had been involved I would've actively discouraged anything more than a friendship between DS and DP and as stated I could forgive him having a pop at DP but having a go at my son is unforgivable.
After careful consideration and reading the experiences and opinions on here I have come to the decision to not facilitate contact at this time, If ex decides to take me to court well we'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it. thank you ladies xx

VincentVonGogh Wed 01-Jul-15 18:02:55

Agree with Paulapompom that op has been more than fair.

Wannabe I think you are being unfair to this op and patronising her as a young mum. I don't see any immaturity in these posts, in fact I think op has shown great maturity in very difficult circumstances.

In all of her posts it's clear that the welfare of her dc are what's important to her here.

Yes it might have been better if she'd stayed but it sounds like the visit was going ok at this point and op gave ex benefit of the doubt. Any mother, any age might have done the same.

Also allowing the Feckless ex special pandering because he hasn't seen his child in nearly 5 years is laughable. Where would this child be if his mother had taken the same stance?

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