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AIBU to think people should say what they fucking mean?

(502 Posts)
LashesandLipstick Tue 30-Jun-15 20:03:37

Inspired by threads in which I was told asking a question is rude because "people feel awkward saying no" and "if the person wants to, offer to do it yourself and if they want to they'll tell you not to and offer instead"

AIBU to think people shouldn't play these stupid games? Just say what you mean for Christs sake. I'm sure an adult can take you politely saying no to a request. All this does is cause confusion and create weird social norms that make no sense and confuse the hell out of people who aren't neurotypical or who are foreign.

Stop it.

MorrisZapp Tue 30-Jun-15 20:06:55

Depends what the question is, surely?

Sometimes asking (for favours) does put the other person in an awkward position. They then feel they have to have a reason for saying no.

MorrisZapp Tue 30-Jun-15 20:08:17

Are you the lady from the last sahm/wohm thread?

NRomanoff Tue 30-Jun-15 20:08:18

Yanbu , the world would bevso much eaiser if people just communicated with each other. Dbro always dances around what he is trying to say then gets shitty because no one had a clue he was asking for a favour.

JohnFarleysRuskin Tue 30-Jun-15 20:10:13

But some

JohnFarleysRuskin Tue 30-Jun-15 20:11:34

Oops - people - like me evidently- aren't very clear.

I often find the people who think they are saying what they mean are actually not at all clear.

LashesandLipstick Tue 30-Jun-15 20:13:00

Morris I did post on that thread

Romanoff exactly! People get offended that you're not a mind reader, it's annoying

DoJo Tue 30-Jun-15 20:14:19

It's not conscious game-playing - it's societal and cultural convention, which is hard to fight against. There are times when asking a question is rude in itself (such as on the thread you're referring to when someone is asking someone who already has a lot on to do them an inconvenient favour rather than just offering to do it themselves) and times when the honest answer would be rude, no matter how politely you try to frame it.

Radical honesty is a nice idea, but unworkable in practice - the reason that people use euphemism, and what you see as 'game-playing' is because it oils the wheels of social interaction and actually makes it easier for the majority to get along, not a deliberate attempt to exclude those who are unwilling or unable to participate.

PyjamasLlamas Tue 30-Jun-15 20:15:40

It's not a game. It's socialised etiquette.

If a guest is at your house and they say 'oh sorry I won't be able to eat that could you make me a a plain grilled chicken' of course the host cannot say no. Because they would feel rude even though they don't want to cook a chicken breast when dinner is already made and then it would be awkward and their guest won't be able to eat anything and then the friendship has soured.

Can you see that there is fallout from saying 'no' to things?

It was explained to you many many times (not by me I was just reading) about how it is really hard and uncomfortable to say no because you are actually thinking about your relationship with the person asking you a question. You don't want to ruin the relationship by saying no.

But you didn't really seem to understand or acknowledge that you understood this.

PyjamasLlamas Tue 30-Jun-15 20:16:29

Xpost with dojo there

Hygge Tue 30-Jun-15 20:17:39

Is this from the thread about the person cooking something like thirteen different food courses for a large group of people, and then being asked if she could go off menu and make extra but different food for a picky guest who didn't like something from every single dish she was making?

That was rude of him to ask, I thought, but yes she should be able to say no, and just no, without being made to feel bad about it or like she was the one being unreasonable.

LashesandLipstick Tue 30-Jun-15 20:17:45

DoJo why is it unworkable? Why can't people stop seeing a "no" as rude or taking it personally? I also don't see how an honest answer is rude, if you don't want to know why ask the question?

Never considered most people aren't conscious of it but that makes sense.

PyjamasLlamas Tue 30-Jun-15 20:18:19

I think maybe you need to take on board the numerous things people have said on the other thread tbh. How many times can it be explained to you.

And maybe think more carefully
next times when you make a request. 'Would this person feel
Obliged to say yes even d that's not really how they feel?' That might give you an idea about whether it's ok to ask or not.

PyjamasLlamas Tue 30-Jun-15 20:19:24

But lashes once again you are taking about hundred of years of social conditioning. That can't just go away on your say so

LashesandLipstick Tue 30-Jun-15 20:19:56

Pyjamas that's just the thing - why should saying no sour the friendship? I'm not friends with people so that they'll do me favours.

I'd be more annoyed if someone pretended to be okay with it and was secretly cross than if they just said no!

People did explain it but it makes no fucking sense to be perfectly honest. Communication exists for a reason.

LashesandLipstick Tue 30-Jun-15 20:21:05

Pyjamas personally I don't hang around with people who can't give me straight answers or take straight answers, I find them really tiresome.

I'm not saying it can go away overnight but surely people can think for themselves..

PyjamasLlamas Tue 30-Jun-15 20:22:01

Do I look fat in this? Yes
Do my spots make me look ugly? Yes
Can you see how am honest answer is not always appropriate?

NRomanoff Tue 30-Jun-15 20:22:23

It's not etiquette. Etiquette is asking for a favour politely. Or saying 'no' politely.

Personally I think people dance around not quite asking for a favour so they can say 'I didn't ask they offered to help'

And we have been conditioned to think that 'no I don't want to' is something bad. That putting yourself out for anyone and everyoneakes you a better person'.

PyjamasLlamas Tue 30-Jun-15 20:23:26

Ok let's turn it around.
You go to a friends house. They cook a 5 course meal. You say to them actually I can't eat any of that. Can you boil some pasta for
Me. They say no.

What happens next. They've been honest. Are you happy now?

Pumpkinpositive Tue 30-Jun-15 20:23:32

if you don't want to know why ask the question?

Because sometimes what people are looking for is reassurance, to be lied to.

Case in point, asking someone "does my arse look big in this?" does not always invite the response "yes" (even if it does!).

NRomanoff Tue 30-Jun-15 20:23:59

Pyjamas but why do people ask 'do I look fat?' If they don't actually want an answer? It's pointless, fishing for compliments and I can't be arsed with it. Don't ask for opinions if you don't actually want an opinion

LashesandLipstick Tue 30-Jun-15 20:24:57

pyjamas while unpleasant unless you're prepared for them to say yes, why ask? You're inviting opinion. Again I'd be annoyed if I asked an opinion and someone lied!

Romanoff I agree with that, especially etiquette - you can say no without being nasty, I don't think people realise that

MorrisZapp Tue 30-Jun-15 20:25:14

So all your faux naive 'I'm not judging wohms! I'm genuinely trying to understand why they have children they don't want to look after' was saying what you fucking meant? Looked to me like passive aggressive pussy footing but whatevs.

NRomanoff Tue 30-Jun-15 20:25:28

They said no, so either you don't eat or cook your own pasta.

If they were a friend inviting you for a 5 course dinner, you should have told them if you had a problem with certain foods. And they should have asked

LashesandLipstick Tue 30-Jun-15 20:25:30

Pumpkin well then that's continent fishing, which is just irritating!

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