to be really disappointed in someone I thought was lovely being anti equal marriage?(96 Posts)
A bit of back story so as not to drip feed. This man is a colleague based in the US. He and his wife were very kind and supportive to me after a mmc having experienced similar. Really, he is one of the nicest blokes I have met, gives great hugs, keeps am eye out for people and seems aware of peoples sensitivities.
Yesterday, in a day full of awful news it was great to see that the whole of the US has now reached marriage equality. I was thoroughly enjoying seeing the White House profile being rainbow coloured and everyone's fantastic reactions. I was happily liking away on Facebook.
However, the wife put up several status updates saying the country was allowing sin, and quoting from the bible. These statuses went from me thinking I hope she's talking about something else to so pointed that hope disappeared. The man also then liked several posts from religious leaders against the new laws.
I am not religious for many reasons but have several friends from varying faiths. None have ever expressed any homophobic views or in fact any sort of discriminatory ones.
I am struggling to understand how such lovely people, who I know have been discriminated against in the past, can be so nasty. It may often be veiled as feeling sorrow for the sinners but it is still homophobic. What if one of their children is gay, the situation could end up entirely miserable.
Anyway, it has really upset me that such kind people aren't kind at all in this situation. AIBU to feel like this?
I would feel the same in your shoes OP. Unfortunately it's a debate you can't win if they views are influenced by religion.
Put lots of positive statuses on your FB page so at the very least, they know your views x
Yanbu. It is one of the few things that would make me think twice about being a friend with someone, religion is no excuse. I'm catholic, believe in God, but am 100% in support of equal rights for gay couples.
My mother is the same. I don't often see her, so I don't have to discuss it, but my father is ill, so I am travelling to see them over the summer.
There is a big debate raging in their country (Australia) at the moment about it (I doubt it's even on the agenda of the shitty government they have, though) and my mother is likely to talk about it, and I will openly disagree with her, and I am so not looking forward to it.
The funny thing is, she brought us up to strongly defend what we believe in, but she can't understand people having beliefs other than her. They are just wrong, and running away from the truth, in her eyes.
Ywnbu to feel this way. I think I would be the same if I knew someone like this. Unfortunately some people use religion to justify their bigoted thinking and will always have a reason to justify this. I am not sure I could get past someone having such bigoted views that went against what I believe.
I would feel the same.
I would also suggest they actually read the bible, as the things they're saying aren't in it.
I think you need to weigh up whether you can have friends with whom you disagree.... I can't stand left-wing ideology or religion, but have friends who vote that way, and are religious... we just disagree on some stuff.
Ultimately, not agreeing with you on equal marriage doesn't make them bad people in and of itself, it just makes them different to you.
Personally, I couldn't care less... If I was a parent in the US I'd be much more worried about my kids getting shot, than not being able to get married. I'll maybe join in the celebrations when they learn to start controlling guns...
This would not be a deal-breaker for me. I support gay marriage, but I actually can see the other side. It's a bit like abortion rights: I strongly support a woman's right to choose, but some of my family members (who I love dearly) don't. That's their religion and their beliefs, and asking as they're not forcing it on me, I'm okay with it.
I would be disappointed too and probably would struggle to respect them much. There is a big difference between differing political views in relation to tax or welfare and equality.
Norin, thousands if not millions of people do care. And they care separately to caring about gun crime. They aren't mutually exclusive. I find your response very odd.
Not agreeing with gay marriage does make someone a 'bad' person in my opinion. It says you consider someone unworthy of equal treatment to you. It makes you willfully ignorant which is quite dangerous and really impact on the quality of people's lives. So for me it's not just a case of them having a run of the mill different opinion on something like where you go on holiday.
The Muslim and Jewish faiths condemn gay marriage, and some Christian denominations do.
This is the time when you have to ask yourself about you attitudes to diversity and whether you are truly tolerant of a pluri-confessional society?
I'm not sure its be a deal breaker but it would definitely bring them down in my estimation. I have a couple of friends (literally, just 2) who have political opinions which are diametrically opposed to mine. I avoid the topic like the plague but, tbh, their opinions on other things carry less weight with me because of their political leanings.
It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but I can understand how it would be for plenty of other people.
It's very easy to say that religion is no excuse, but I think it's very hard to understand such very firmly held beliefs in religion if that's not something you have experience of. I don't think it means your friend is no longer a nice person. If you have been able to judge him positively on his actions in the past, then you probably will be able to again. Live and let live should apply to everyone, even if they do have opinions that we fundamentally disagree with.
Not agreeing with gay marriage does make someone a 'bad' person in my opinion. It says you consider someone unworthy of equal treatment to you.
I doubt the OP's friend would see it that way. More to the point, they want to see a woman with a man. Nothing to do with unequal treatment.
It's archaic and unreasonable, but I wouldn't write someone off for it.
It sounds to me as if they are genuinely nice people(you have experienced that firsthand) I would hazard a guess that if a gay person was in need of care and support they would offer that to them too without prejudice. Most Christians believe the Bible teaches that the act of sex should only happen within a married heterosexual relationship. This does not mean that Christians hate anyone who lives differently to this otherwise they would hate most people, including many other Christians as most fall short of this ideal. What it does mean is that they cannot support legislation that goes against what they believe. Many Christians supported civil partnership legislation because they felt that legally 2 people who had spent a lifetime together should have legal rights etc,but most felt it should have been extended to lifetime friendships too and should not have been just about gay relationships.
I think you should judge your friends on the way they act towards people and not on what they believe. You do not understand how they can believe one thing and yet still come across as caring people. It is possible because overlying everything else in Christianity is a command to 'Love your neighbour as yourself' and this is non negotiable. Being against same sex marriage does not make them homophobic. They would still love and care for a gay person.
Sorry if that is rambling. It is very hard to explain coherently.
I'd be surprised and upset too. I just can't fathom why someone would disagree with it.
and if someone did disagree why post stuff about it which serves no purpose but to hurt people, rather than just live your own life by what you believe.
I think it's great. I'm happy fir my kids to be free to marry the person they live when they are older. I don't see how any god can want people to be miserable and have to hide how they feel.
makes no sense to.me.
I think it is very hard to understand the complete hold that religion has on mainstream USA. Even if they are rejoicing inwardly, they would have to show on the outside that they opposed it...just to save face and keep in with their community. So dont write him off just yet...
I am struggling to understand how such lovely people, who I know have been discriminated against in the past, can be so nasty.
Bad people do bad things.
Bad people sometimes do good things.
Good people do good things.
But for good people to do bad things, you need to give them a religion.
I would have to challenge it. I have some friends who disagree with gay marriage and I challenge it every time they say anything negative. It has cooled the friendship as I cannot understand how anyone has a problem with someone being gay, or getting wed.
With regard to the last part of your question, my (sadly deceased) father-in-law was a staunch Roman Catholic and strongly against divorce. When his daughter fell in love with, and eventually began to live with a divorced man, there was no doubt he struggled with the situation, but went on to be wholly accepting because he loved his daughter. Sometimes I think those who have never experienced something close to home can have strong views which can be changed by experiences they did not foresee.
I would try not to let this ruin a friendship, particularly with an American person as the culture and religious influence is so different out there.
I once made friends with a lovely couple in Alaska who were staunch Sarah Palin supporters, very religious, loved guns and hunting, and while it never came up in conversation they were probably homophobic too. I don't agree with any of those views but we could still be friends as we didn't need to talk about those things, we were all interested in movies, video games, geek stuff...
Personally I try not to let personal/political views get in the way of friendships unless they start preaching their views to me. But I understand not everyone would be this way, on principle.
I'd feel sad and disappointed too OP.
I'd add them to my "tosser in sheep's clothing spreadsheet" and post lots of the awesome celebrations from yesterday on my FB including the wonderful summation from one of the judges that is being shared.
Many of the judges disagreed with the decision too. For many reasons lots of people in USA struggle with this issue. But I bet in 10 years time, when the world simply carries on, many of today's dissenters will wonder WTF they thought the big deal was.
Apparently though it's OK if you just preach that "you must hate the sin, not the sinner"
I have a lot of American friends and I've seen a massive flip on the whole with the ant gay brigade. Huge swing round to it being accepted. Apart from 2. 2 very religious women/bigots.
They have 8 children between them and I harbour wicked thoughts hoping 1 will be gay or bi.
The issue is not "Gay marriage" but EQUAL marriage. If someone thinks that a significant percentage of the population are not entitled to the same rights as the rest because of who they love, then it is unequal & discriminatory.
It is disappointing when those we think highly of let us down, for me it would be a deal breaker in the friendship, as it would mean they see themselves as better than their gay friends & colleagues.
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