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to think we all need to take responsibility for challenging islamophobia

(541 Posts)
karbonfootprint Wed 24-Jun-15 18:38:06

It is so common and so hurtful to some of our fellow citizens. I don't think any of us should let it pass when we hear it, in private, but especially in public.

Nullandvoid Wed 24-Jun-15 18:40:51

Quite honestly I would rather see more muslims standing up and saying that they do not support the violence people are perpetrating in their name.

WhetherOrNot Wed 24-Jun-15 18:51:20

I will do so when I see more Muslims standing up and marching to Downing Street saying "Not In Our Name". Until then - meh!

MrsTerryPratchett Wed 24-Jun-15 18:54:21

True. I, as a white person of Christian heritage, certainly queued up with all my fellow white people, to take responsibility for the massacre in the Church in the US. Hold on. No, I didn't because that would have been entirely stupid.

There are more than 1.5 BILLION Muslim people. Exactly how many are terrorists? Less than the proportion of white Christians, I bet.

karbonfootprint Wed 24-Jun-15 18:57:10

But the violence you are referring to has nothing what so ever to do with the average Muslim on the bus around the uk, does it. Any more than that maniac Dylan Rooff, slaughtering people in the name of white supremacy, has anything to do with normal white people.

karbonfootprint Wed 24-Jun-15 18:58:06

cross post, Mrs terry Pratchett, that is exactly what I mean.

Moomintroll85 Wed 24-Jun-15 18:58:43

I agree in general OP. The vast majority of Muslims that I know are very nice people who I would stand up for definitely.

There are however a few I have come across that are very quick to accuse people of islamophobia - mainly when they challenge them on their various sexist and homophobic views (which they are always keen to share with people). It becomes a bit difficult to stand up for the few who expect to be protected from discrimination but are very happy to dish it out to other groups.

karbonfootprint Wed 24-Jun-15 19:01:05

I'm sure you are tight Moonintrolls, but I don't think that the proportion of Muslims who behave like this is any higher than the proportion of other groups.

MrsTerryPratchett Wed 24-Jun-15 19:02:41

Yeah but Moomin doesn't that just come under the heading, 'Some people are twunts, including some Muslims'? There are plenty of sexist and homophobic white people.

FWIW, none of my Muslim friends has ever mentioned Islamophobia in regard to anything except really dreadful abuses (drones etc.)

OldFarticus Wed 24-Jun-15 19:10:08

Definitely not Islamophobic - DH is Muslim and I live in an Islamic country.

I generally agree with the OP but I am wary of fear of Islamophobia being used as a means of shutting down debate over some of the more misogynistic and homophobic aspects of some interpretations of Islam. I don't think our tolerance should extend to the intolerant behaviour of others, if that makes sense.

Moomintroll85 Wed 24-Jun-15 19:13:31

Of course there are many non muslims that have these horrible views. It's just these few people in particular that I'm aware of are always demanding respect for themselves and getting angry when they feel discriminated against but are quite nasty towards women and (especially) gay people. As if that kind of discrimination is ok. When none of it is.

I've not heard it from most, just a few as I said. So I thought it a point worth mentioning.

lordsandladies Wed 24-Jun-15 19:14:57

muslims against ISIS

Muslim Youth League Jihad against terrorism - in a bid to stop ISIS recruiting

Muslims start the "Burn ISIS Flag" Challenge

muslim world leaders in open letter condemning terror groups and citing how they break Sharia Law

Edgware anti terror march by Muslims. Close enough to westminster or not?

That enough for now or do you want some worldwide ones? Don't state that Muslims aren't making their voices heard when you just clearly aren't listening.

OP YANBU. But we also shouldn't be afraid to discuss the issues without being accused of Islamaphobia. It shuts down and divides the communities.

AdventureBe Wed 24-Jun-15 19:17:01

I agree with you in my heart OP, but being practical, I think actually, for too long it's been the other way.

"Right thinking" non-Muslims weren't allowed to speak out against the hate that was been preached in the name of Islam, for fear of being branded racist and unfortunately, too many Muslims were tacitly supporting the sentiment, if not the violence.

MrsTerryPratchett Wed 24-Jun-15 19:18:16

I get it. My rule is that your right to swing your arm ends at my nose. That means that by all means <pulls list of religious and cultural things out> you can wear a veil but don't expect me to. You can refuse a life-saving abortion but I will have the access to safe and legal abortions, thanks. You can choose not to marry someone of the same gender but I want that right. You can object to sitting next to someone of the opposite gender but I will sit where I please.

I respect people (not religions) and their right to make choices based on that if they wish. However, my choices are my choices as well. That way, we can all rub along nicely.

UglyBugaz Wed 24-Jun-15 19:19:40

I don't stand for it, I'm not Muslim but I was born into a Muslim family, I've had people say things around me and I do go off on them

Chillyegg Wed 24-Jun-15 19:24:12

Im a muslim.
Im not homophobic.
Im a feminist.

Is also say something if someone was islamaphobic, anti-semetic, anti-Christian or prejudice in any way about some ones religion

Chillyegg Wed 24-Jun-15 19:27:30

Id also kick of if someone was being racist or homophobic.

And alot of muslims i know are the same...

bellegold Wed 24-Jun-15 19:42:03

No, because I think they have enough support already, we have to watch what we say so carefully or are branded racist and I feel that everybody bends over backwards re not being able to fly British flags etc as they are constantly being 'offended' and insulted by this that and the other. I know a few Muslims and they are lovely but I do not like the religion of Islam which is my right. Xx

DoraGora Wed 24-Jun-15 19:45:24

I challenge stupid and incorrect statements whenever I see them. But, I'd like to see far more Muslims marching against Muslim inspired atrocities and I'd like to see regular expressions of democratic solidarity coming from our Muslim communities before I go out of my way to stand up for their beliefs. Till I'm satisfied that that's happening, I'll add my meh to the one above.

karbonfootprint Wed 24-Jun-15 19:46:24

Who is constantly being offended and insulted by this that and the other? Not my Muslim friends. Nor do they feel they have any "support" if someone has a go at them in the street.

karbonfootprint Wed 24-Jun-15 19:48:00

I'd like to see regular expressions of democratic solidarity coming from our Muslim communities

exactly how and in what form do you expect this to take? How much do you know about what is already being done?

Denimwithdenim00 Wed 24-Jun-15 19:52:14

Not especially op.

Any racist/sexist/disablist views need to be challenged.

Islam is a religious belief so a life style choice. Like Christianity

Life style choices should all up for criticism and examination and discussion.

Race and religion are very different.

DoraGora Wed 24-Jun-15 19:52:57

We don't have inter faith meeting groups in our area. That might be a start.

DoraGora Wed 24-Jun-15 19:59:45

We have a fairly high number of challenges in our area. I suspect that an IF meeting group would need to be facilitated by some fairly senior figures, like a bishop or dean, for our part and a senior Muslim figure for theirs. otherwise, I can see how finger pointing might arise. I'll discuss it at our church. But, I wouldn't expect much enthusiasm to come of it.

bellegold Wed 24-Jun-15 20:02:53

Agree with Islam being a lifestyle choice. If I were yo go around saying I believe in aliens I would expect people to disagree with me, laugh at me etc. Being a muslim is no different they choose to live a certain way so I don't really see it as being racist, its not the same as discriminating against someone for skin colour/sexual orientation and other things people are born with and have no choice over xx

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