to be upset by this?

[Fluz]

DP and I have been together for 13 years, living together in my flat (on which I have a mortgage) for 8. We have decided not to have children - a joint decision and one we're very happy with. The issue is - I want to get married. I've brought the subject up before but DP has always brushed it off and managed not to actually discuss it.

As a separate issue, DP and I have discussed putting him on the mortgage. My parents invested a 50% deposit on the flat so, to protect their investment, I have offered DP 25% (or 50% of the remaining value). He is happy with this. However, for various reasons (difficulty getting appointment with mortgage lender, not really sure how to find a solicitor) we haven't actually done it.

So this morning I managed to get DP to actually discuss the marriage issue. He won't do it. He doesn't believe in it, he thinks marriage is a joke. No room for negotiation. I'm gutted. I always thought I'd get married one day, and it means a lot to me. I think there are legal benefits, plus the mortgage faff would go away. But mainly, I want to marry him.

AIBU to be upset? And how should we move forward?

[redexpat]

I think you should ask for this to be moved to relationships for a start!

YANBU to be upset, but i think YWBU to have a relationship for 13 years without having this discussion.

Is he anti marriage or anti wedding?

[PeppermintCrayon]

You want to GIVE him 25%? Why?

[MrsNextDoor]

Peppermint I would assume he's been paying towards the mortgage all those years.

OP....you will sadly need to lay it on the table...if he can't get his head around it at all, are you willing to be with him any longer? I personally couldn't...

[TedAndLola]

I think YABU because this really isn't a big deal, is it? Your relationship wouldn't change one little bit once you had a marriage certificate. To ask how you can "move forward" when you've been together 13 years, presumably very happy, without a certificate, is absurd - just keep doing what you've been doing!

[Fluz]

Redexpat - we actually had this conversation towards the start of the relationship, and at the time it was something he wanted. I've mentioned it since and been brushed off, but assumed he was anti-wedding. Now it turns out he's anti-marriage.

Peppermint - he's been paying me rent for the last 8 years.

[MajesticWhine]

You could just accept what he believes and carry on as you are. With a bit of effort you could sort out the legal stuff and make sure your assets are owned fairly, so that both are protected in case of a break up. But I am guessing marriage means more than that to you. I guess, it comes down to whether you are prepared to compromise if he won't. Marriage can be seen as simply a legal agreement. Why wouldn't he legally join himself to you if that's what you want? Yeah, I would be annoyed too.

[Sunnyshores]

Obviously not being married means as much to him as being married means to you, so youre unlikely to change each others minds. Is it really a dealbreaker for you? If youre still together after 13 years it must be a pretty good relationship, think yourselves lucky, celebrate the relationship you have; whatever its called.

[soupey1]

For me it would be a deal breaker so YANBU although I wouldn't have let it go for 13 years. I know to some people it is just a bit of paper but to a lot of people. me included, it is far more.

You need to think long and hard about whether you can move past this and accept you will never be married or give him an ultimatum. Does he appreciate just how strongly you feel?

[Sunnyshores]

how about changing your name by deedpoll to Mrs DP. Asking him to buy you an eternity ring, having an amazing 'honeymoon' or a once in a lifetime holiday - just to reflect a commitment/understanding whatever.

You could also have a small family party if thats the side of the wedding you crave, but thats all sounding a bit wedding-like to me.

I completely understand the not wanting to get married, but there are other options you could consider that he should agree to if he is committed to you.

[hedgehogsdontbite]

YANBU

I think this is often trotted out as an excuse to avoid having to admit they don't feel the same for you as you do for them.

[Mermaidhair]

No yanbu, it is obviously important to you. My late dh and I got married after we had children, and it did make us feel different. I loved being his wife. Can you try to have a real deep and meaningful conversation with him? Tell him you love him so much that you want to be his wife

[Fluz]

I don't know that it's a deal breaker for me - but I told him that (rightly or wrongly) I would feel more secure if we were married, and he gave a flippant answer (which is usual for him; it's very hard to get him to communicate seriously on stuff like this). The evil demon in the back of my mind keeps whispering that if we aren't married and I put him on the mortgage, he'll dump me and take 25% of my home.

Also, my concern isn't just about legal division of property, but things like if one of us is incapacitated we don't have a legal right to make medical decisions for each other as we aren't next of kin. We'd have to rely on our families to do the right thing in that respect.

[MajesticWhine]

If you have that doubt in your mind, then don't put him on the mortgage. He can carry on being your lodger with benefits. Is that what he wants?

[fastdaytears]

Fluz are you in England/Wales? If you are then no such thing as next of kin and being married won't change you mental incapacity worries. I'm also not sure it will help with the mortgage in the way you're thinking and might worry your parents a bit if they've got a lot of money in the flat.

Being married will help you if you split up and he's higher earner or if you are over the IHT threshold (£325k each).

Otherwise, focus on the emotional stuff. If he doesn't want to publicly commit to you and you want him to then that's your issue not the legal stuff. Is he anti big weddings and a registry office and pub would be ok by him or is it the whole institution of marriage?

[fastdaytears]

Sorry should have said or if he has more capital than you too but it sounds like he won't. It's very easy to find a solicitor to help you on what staying unmarried means legally, but I honestly don't think that's your big issue here

[sparechange]

Gifting him a portion of your flat isn't just as easy as updating the mortgage, and depending on the value of the flat, he might have to pay stamp duty on the entire value of the flat.

Can you pin down what about marriage he 'doesn't believe in'? It seems hypocritical to not believe in something that legally binds you both but want to legally bind you both in property.

[Stubbed]

In all seriousness, this was my DH. With his ex girlfriend. He didn't want to be married. But then after they split up, we met & got married within a year and afterwards he said he realised that he just didn't want to marry her... Please think carefully before giving him your flat share

[mimishimmi]

is he pressuring you to get his name added to the mortgage? You could just tell him you don't believe in joint ownership just like he doesn't believe in marriage. Why does he think it's a joke?

[BoyScout]

If you get married, you won't be able to protect your parents investment. He might get more than 25% in a divorce.

[Fluz]

Thanks all!

Fastday - I didn't know that re mental incapacity, thank you - I'll do some research on how it works.

Regarding the mortgage... my parents' intention is that they will never cash in their investment, but the deposit will eventually form part of my inheritance. From my point of view, if DP commits to me in the way that is important to me (marriage), then I will commit 50% of the flat to him. I'm irrationally worried that he doesn't want to get married because he doesn't intend to stay with me, and will cash out 25% of the flat if I put him on the mortgage. If we got married, my parents would be ecstatic, they love him.

Having spoken to the mortgage lender, they have approved him in principal to go on the mortgage. The intention is that we would sort out a transfer of equity to his name and then see a solicitor to draw up the necessary documents regarding division of assets etc (is it tenants in common?). The value of the flat is below the stamp duty threshold.

I don't want a 'wedding' as such - A trip to the registry office then trot off home would be fine. I just want to be married to him in a way that I can't really explain.

[TheSweeper]

You want a public acknowledgement that his relationship with you is different to his relationship with anyone else in the world, and that is ok. I'd agree with those saying tread cautiously/don't be too hasty signing over some of your property to him, I'm afraid.

[mimishimmi]

He could potentially cash out more than 25% if you put him on the mortgage if he can prove that you have been in a long term relationship and that he has been contributing to the mortgage with his rent. That said, I'm not sure why he's afraid of marriage as it would strengthen any claims in that regard if he wanted out of the relationship.