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To have told XH no?

(64 Posts)
PeggyTheClothesHorse Mon 22-Jun-15 10:15:57

I'm a little bit torn over this and feeling crap after the inevitable argument so thought I could do with some other views on the situation.

My XH has asked if he can take our two DC on holiday during term time along with the rest of his family. Apparently his father is paying as he is quite ill and it will be his last holiday abroad.

Our DC are 7 and 4, the youngest will have only started school 6 weeks before he intends to take them. I have said no to his request but told him I have no problem with him taking them at half term. He has said this is not possible because the cost of the holiday doubles during the holidays.

If I'm brutally honest, im a bit sad that I won't be there for their first holiday abroad but have put my feelings to one side and said its ok if he takes them during school holidays. I have always had an issue with taking them out of school, even when we were together so this is not a new stance from me. Also, whilst it apparently seems noble to want to do this as a 'last request' for his DF, it rather ignores the fact that XH couldn't stand his father and didn't speak to him for several years after his dad fleeced him out of the family business. They didn't even make up when his DF was diagnosed with cancer so I'm a bit hmm at the sudden change of heart. There are lots of side issues surrounding what I deem to be XH's unreasonable behaviour surrounding the care of our DC but there's too many to list and I'm not sure if they're relevant to the issue.

XH is really angry with me for saying no and is now forbidding me from ever taking them on holiday because he'll miss out on his weekday access. Neither child has a passport and I doubt he will authorise me to get them one now so I will never be able to take them abroad. I think his attitude on this is proof that he doesn't care about our DC doing something nice, he only wants it to happen if it's some grand gesture on his part.

So AIBU by saying no to this or should I let him?

OhNoNotMyBaby Mon 22-Jun-15 10:18:39

No. Don't let him - simply tell him the truth, which is that the school will penalise YOU, heavily and financially, by doing this (assuming you are in the UK). It is simply not allowed these days.

TongueBiter Mon 22-Jun-15 10:21:17

Tell him to phone/write to the school and see what they say to him.

And make sure he pays for the passports ;-)

cuntycowfacemonkey Mon 22-Jun-15 10:21:18

Personally I would just agree to them going but be clear that this the only time you will agree to a term time holiday.

SaucyJack Mon 22-Jun-15 10:24:02

YANBU to say no.
Indeed, it isn't even your decision- term-time holidays are simply not allowed these days.

I don't think his relationship with his father is for you to comment on tho tbh.

TheyGotTheMustardOut Mon 22-Jun-15 10:24:10

You might want to contact the children's legal advocacy charity Coram.

Your children have a right to go on holiday and neither you nor you xh should keep them from going. I happen to agree with you about term time holidays but they should be able to advise you further. And they will also advise you on taking them yourself one day.

I don't think your xh can keep you from getting passports for them, you can apply for them yourself without his signature but you do need to include his information, name, address, etc.

PeggyTheClothesHorse Mon 22-Jun-15 10:24:49

Thank you for your reply OhNo. He is aware of the potential to be fined but says he will pay any fines himself. I think if he's willing to pay the fines then he should just pay the extra to go during the holidays. I also don't trust him to not lumber me with the fines since he's promised to pay for things before and bit done it. My DC's school is very funny about this sort of thing. I once took them out of school a couple of hours early and I got a bollocking.

lloydlf33 Mon 22-Jun-15 10:26:41

I think you're BU his relationship with his father is none of your concern when and how they have reconciled is irrelevant. His father is dying and this is their last chance to holiday together. Your children are young so are very unlikely to be disadvantaged academically by a holiday. Let him take them on the proviso that it it isn't authorised and you received a fine then he pays

littlejohnnydory Mon 22-Jun-15 10:26:41

I think you're being hugely unreasonable, I'm afraid. I'm in Wales where they are still authorising term time holidays up to ten days but I think there's a good chance of this being authorised. If not, would xh pay your fine as well as his? You're denying your children the chance to make some special memories with their grandfather before he dies - regardless of the adults'relationships that's what you should prioritise. It sounds like you and xh are getting at each other and using the children tbh.

PeggyTheClothesHorse Mon 22-Jun-15 10:26:42

Lots of x-posts there. Thank you everyone for the input especially the link. Thank you Mustard.

BarbarianMum Mon 22-Jun-15 10:27:09

It won't just be him that's fined though, it will be you too if you agree to them going. Is he going to pay your fine too? Does he even know how much he could be fined?

Floggingmolly Mon 22-Jun-15 10:27:22

The children do not have a "right" to go on holiday in term time, TheyGot?? And they do not need a legal advocacy charity to tell them that. What a load of cobblers...

PeggyTheClothesHorse Mon 22-Jun-15 10:28:02

To be clear, his father isn't dying, it's just his last holiday abroad. The DC have never been abroad before and my feeling is that if its that important, they should go the week after during the school holidays.

grannytomine Mon 22-Jun-15 10:29:26

Well people do sometimes rethink things when someone is terminally ill so I don't think his change of attitude is so suprising.

If I thought they would be well looked after I would let them go if he was prepared to pay for passports and any fines. If I had any doubts e.g. if he is a heavy drinker or something, I wouldn't be happy unless I had faith in ex MIL being the responsible attitude.

I suppose I am laid back about kids missing some school at this age, I didn't send mine till year 4 and in all honesty missing 4 years of school didn't hold them back so I can't imagine a fortnight is going to do much harm, particularly if it is a one off when they are so young.

Would you feel any better if it was a week? Is there any room for negotiation?

BeenWondering Mon 22-Jun-15 10:30:06

Don't let him take the DC out of school. Schools have these policies for a reason otherwise it would be chaos.

XH is really angry with me for saying no and is now forbidding me from ever taking them on holiday because he'll miss out on his weekday access

Are you sure about needing his authorisation for a passport? I get the feeling he'll try and use the children as pawns to spite you so don't let him bully you (or the kids having said that.)

DoreenLethal Mon 22-Jun-15 10:31:35

'XH. You have form for not paying me monies you have promised, and the school will fine me for you taking them out in term time. If you feel the need to bang your balls about with regards allowing holidays then that's your prerogative. If I could trust you to pay the fines and you communicated with me with some respect then I might be willing to enter negotiations. I am not prepared to take the long term attitude from the school just so that you can get your own way for your father who you showed no apparent interest in the whole time we were in a relationship. Taking kids out of school term time has effects, not least on the school's attitude to the parents who do this.'

formidable Mon 22-Jun-15 10:32:19

No, don't let him, but rather than be the bad guy tell him to ask school, and say as long as it's authorised by school it's fine by you. You know school won't authorise it so it's silly to be the bad guy here when actually it's school who is the bad guy.

Secondly, you don't need his authorisation to get them passports - you only need one signature on the form (I've done this recently for DS).

Thirdly, you don't need his permission to take them out of the country for a normal 2 week holiday.

So don't worry about comeback - he can't stop you taking them away.

grannytomine Mon 22-Jun-15 10:32:58

Read your update, find out what the fine will be and get the money off him upfront.

I do understand that you feel sad about missing their first holiday abroad but the problem is that either you or their father will miss out on that, that shouldn't mean the children can't go and you are right to put that on one side.

Mumoftwoyoungkids Mon 22-Jun-15 10:35:11

Could you say that you will agree if he can get it authorised from the school? Schools are allowed to authorise in exceptional circumstances so he may be able to get it authorised due to his dad.

honeyroar Mon 22-Jun-15 10:35:33

I'm not pro taking children out of school in general, but at that age I would, especially if it may be their last chance to take a holiday with their ill grandad. A fine from the school wouldn't be anything like the amount of extra money they would have to pay for a whole family to go in half term.

How he gets on with his father and why he has decided to go is nothing to do with you.

I very much doubt he would really stop the children from ever going on holiday. He's probably just saying that because he's upset.

We had this with my husband's ex. She refused to let us take SS out of school for a day because it would disrupt his education and it was an important year, then promptly took him out of school herself for a week a couple of months later! (Not saying you would OP!)

We found schools were generally sensible and if it was explained that it was a last family holiday together with an ill family member our schools would have probably been ok. I'd at least discuss it with the school with your ex perhaps?

TheyGotTheMustardOut Mon 22-Jun-15 10:37:21

Floggingmolly I didn't say they have a right to go on holiday in term time, I said they had a right to go on holiday and provided practical information to a children's advocacy charity that can guide the OP on how to proceed.

Children do have a right to go on holiday and divorced/separated parents don't have a right to deny them a holiday. This means the xh will not be able to prevent the OP from ever taking them on holiday.

grannytomine Mon 22-Jun-15 10:40:14

I believe the ex can stop you taking them abroad but not positive. The couple, or former couple, I know in this situation had particular issues as he wasn't British and there was a risk he wouldn't return the children. I think he had to go to court and got some sort of order. Maybe take legal advice?

isntthatapippip Mon 22-Jun-15 10:44:01

I would not let him take them, it isn't allowed by schools for a reason as it disrupts learning.

You don't need his signature on their passport form but you do need information from his passport so he can withhold that.

And I think you do need his authorisation to take the children out of the country. although they don't always check this, i wouldn't risk it.

NynaevesSister Mon 22-Jun-15 10:45:13

What the others have said. If your exFiL isn't dying then I think tough. The rules are there for a reason. You can't just take them out in term time. Other people stick to the rules and holiday in the UK instead.

He can't just stop you from taking them out but you will need a letter from him agreeing to it even for a two week holiday. Therefore you may have to go to court, but you should be able to do that without using representation. The charity will be able to advise.

formidable Mon 22-Jun-15 10:50:56

YOUR EX CANNOT STOP YOU TAKING YOUR CHILDREN AWAY ON A NORMAL HOLIDAY

Sorry, I feel the need to shout as so many posters are ignoring this point.

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