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to think the Grammar school system is flawed and unfair even though I am a product of one?....

(38 Posts)
selly24 Wed 17-Jun-15 13:04:57

Would love to hear your thoughts.....

flora717 Wed 17-Jun-15 13:09:52

In what context? The selective nature? I think most of them are weak schools in terms of adding anything to their learners. There's very little achievement in taking brilliant pupils age 11 and churning out better than average students age 18.

FarFromAnyRoad Wed 17-Jun-15 13:12:09

Well good for you. You have an opinion. It's yours and nobody can take it away from you. I'm not really sure what your AIBU is as your title is AIBU but the body of your post is information gathering. Odd.

pearpotter Wed 17-Jun-15 13:12:28

It's not the results- that's a given. It's the quality of the education.

LashesandLipstick Wed 17-Jun-15 13:12:59

In what way are they unfair? I don't agree with private schools as they're unfair but I don't see how a grammar is as its on ability

NorahDentressangle Wed 17-Jun-15 13:17:00

It's not the grammar schools that's the problem it's the other options. If the non grammar schools were top notch no one would care.

treaclesoda Wed 17-Jun-15 13:17:33

It's only unfair if the non grammars in the area are poor schools. I live in an area where there are grammars and non grammars and the non grammars have excellent reputations, in fact one of the non grammars is more over subscribed than the most prestigious grammar school in the area.( There are no comprehensives in my area.) In my area it works well because all the schools are good, it is just that the pupils are perhaps learning at a different pace, or in a different way. And I've never heard of anyone feeling traumatised or a failure for attending one of the non grammars. It certainly seems fairer to me than the idea of a decent comprehensive being available only to those who an afford to live in a particular area.

5Foot5 Wed 17-Jun-15 13:24:25

I am guessing the OP is referring to the fact that in many areas the competition is so intense that the parents who can afford it start getting their children tutored for the 11+ way in advance. This no doubt works to the advantage of the comfortably off middle classes whereas bright children from poorer backgrounds are less likely to be able to compete on an even playing field for these precious places.

I don't think it was always like this but the area I grew up in had gone comprehensive a few years before I reached the relevant age so I never had to go through it.

LashesandLipstick Wed 17-Jun-15 13:26:15

5foot but parents can do that for any exam?

TooMuchRain Wed 17-Jun-15 13:43:32

Like you, I went to a grammar school and it worked very well for me but I'm pretty sure that if on the day of the 11+ I had been having an off day and had gone to the alternative school I would have ended up with very different results and a very different attitude to education. So, in that sense, yes it is unfair, any bad behaviour at our school resulted in pupils being expelled because they could be easily transferred to the comp but that wasn't a possibility for the teachers at the comp so they just had to manage the problem behaviours which takes away from actual teaching time.

sunshield Wed 17-Jun-15 15:46:42

The thing i find most interesting on here, with the grammar school debates, is that often the biggest critics are those that benefited from them.

The biggest supporters tend to be those , who failed the 11+ . The people who failed tend to be determined that at least, their child should have a shot at a superior education.

I personally get a bit "peeved" off with people who achieved because of a grammar school education but constantly "decry" the system. The idea is not flawed and provided the non grammar schools offer an appropriate and excellent education, which my yr 8 DS is getting . The education he is getting is equal to what his yr 9/10 sisters are getting at their grammar school.

ChuffinAda Wed 17-Jun-15 16:29:42

I live in a grammar area where the schools also have additional catchment areas. The comps are all outstanding too and we genuinely have a great 3 tiered education structure in this county that serves its children well.

I firmly believe bright children are as much SEN as the other end of the spectrum and should have suitable educational facilities available to them to cater to their needs.

BlowingThroughTheJasmineinMyMi Wed 17-Jun-15 16:32:22

all schooling is flawed in UK.

Comps near expensive houses people cannot afford, private schools, and so on, so yes grammars are flawed but so what. it all is.

Malenky Wed 17-Jun-15 17:20:12

I'm a "product" of one too and while I think it was a terrible experience for me, some people thrived. The only reason it was terrible for me was because I am from a disadvantaged and often mocked area and consequently not even close to rich whereas everyone else was at least middle middle class, so I was different. Despite that I'm glad I got the chance to go to a really good school and improve my prospects- others at my grammar would have been able to pay for a private education had they not passed the 11 plus but I would have had to go to the comprehensive my friends went to, which I would have really enjoyed but wasn't a very good school.

Cantbelievethisishappening Wed 17-Jun-15 17:34:43

I firmly believe bright children are as much SEN as the other end of the spectrum and should have suitable educational facilities available to them to cater to their needs

But intense hot housing for the 11+ does little to identify the naturally bright children although I believe grammar schools are now addressing this.

LeChien Wed 17-Jun-15 17:40:23

Round here the majority of dc in the Grammar school have been trained to pass the 11+
Once in school, many are tutored outside school hours to keep up with the work.
I often think it's unfair on the children as they are pushed to reach a potential that is not natural to them, and wonder what the result will be in terms of being happy in adulthood.

BrilliantDayForTheRace Wed 17-Jun-15 17:40:49

Well given that the cohort of my DSs grammar is almost entirely Indian / Sikh obviously lots of white British parents agree with you.

The catchment is huge. And not mostly Indian / Sikh

I think it's a pity that the cohort isn't more mixed and more representative

AlfalfaMale Wed 17-Jun-15 17:45:18

Picking up on Jasmine's reductionist theme, how about starting from "schooling is flawed" and working up from there? :/

Fluffcake Wed 17-Jun-15 17:55:10

I went to a grammar as did one of my sisters and my brother. None of us did particularly well academically - I was a classic underachiever and would have probably done better at the local comp where I would have been in the top half of the class instead of the bottom. But we have all done well for ourselves since leaving school.

I wouldn't stand a chance of getting in today.

Both my dcs are at grammars. They are much cleverer than me and doing well. DS was adamant that he didn't want to go to the local comp as he struggled with the low level disruption at primary and I think he was worried he may have been picked on.
DD wanted to follow her brother. She is cleverer but lazier!

Szeli Wed 17-Jun-15 18:57:29

What is a non Grammar if not a comp?

MayPolist Wed 17-Jun-15 19:08:24

What is a non Grammar if not a comp?

A comp or comprehensive means the full ability range.In a grammar school area the alternative is not a comprehensive because it does not have the full ability spectrum.

formidable Wed 17-Jun-15 19:12:59

Im fucking fed up of OPs who cannot be arsed to formulate their thoughts into a coherent and interesting OP.

Fucking poor.

BertrandRussell Wed 17-Jun-15 19:17:24

Formidable- so right.

OP- feel free to search previous threads - you will find that everything on this subject has been covered. Repeatedly.

Szeli Wed 17-Jun-15 19:18:18

Well the options round here are grammar, comp or faith

Szeli Wed 17-Jun-15 19:22:05

Perhaps our local schools identify as comps as the grammar can't take that many kids.

When I went 112 a year

We didn't learn anything except how to pass exams. I wouldn't be keen on any daughters going there but the boys school at least seemed to churn out well read young men so I'd consider it if ds fancied it.

Don't agree with tutoring, you should be able to pass the test on your own merit or not go

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