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Elder abuse? "Gift" of dog

(25 Posts)
TiredButFine Thu 07-May-15 07:56:34

Hi posting for traffic.
Family member has two pedigree dogs. Due to downsizing to smaller house, the dogs were noisy/unhappy so they asked if my nan would take one dog. Nan agreed and dog is then installed in her house sitting on the best chair on special cushion and generally treated like a king. In short, she loves the dog and it's done her good- heating is now on more "for the dog"!
After a family row the dog was snatched back. The row was over money owed to nan which wasn't paid as requested. Nan was crying and upset, luckily the dog was returned a few hours later with a note saying it was "unsettled back at my house".
I can see now that this family member (who is generally always short of cash/arguementative/temperamental) is always going to have this hold that the dog is registered and chipped to them, and could reasonably force the return of the dog at any time they don't get their own way (when shouting, crying and swearing does not work)
Whereas Nan loves the dog she has no right of ownership or keeping it does she? The dog can be used as a way to basically emotionally upset/abuse her.
AIBU to think this is elder abuse to do this to a pensioner?

KoalaDownUnder Thu 07-May-15 07:59:41

Family member is an arsehole.

Using the dog as an emotional blackmail tool is not on. Can you intervene and offer to help get the dog re-registered & microchipped to your nan's name?

Does this family member pay anything towards the dog's upkeep?

flanjabelle Thu 07-May-15 08:04:44

When they are next getting on well, get the relative to sign over the chip. you can download a form if I remember rightly. Make sure your Nan has registered at a vets and got pet insurance with legal cover. Have you any record (emails, texts etc) about the dog being given to her? The more evidence you have, the better chance you have of fighting it if they try and take the dog.

Quitelikely Thu 07-May-15 08:04:55

The person is very petty. Take it to get re registered.

It's not elderly abuse.

wheresthelight Thu 07-May-15 08:05:27

can you contact the microchip people and have the details changed over to your nan? costs about £15 normally and if you take it to a vet they will normally scan for free or a small charge and give you the chip number and which company it is registered with.

your family member is being a complete arse and I would suggest advising your nan to severe all contact and if they have keys to her house then get the locks changed immediately

Flowerfae Thu 07-May-15 08:08:06

its emotional abuse so would probably come under elder abuse, not sure if there's a way of getting the dog re-microchipped, but there should be because people do give their dogs to other people, maybe can ask at a vets?

FenellaFellorick Thu 07-May-15 08:10:52

Are they doing it because she is old and are taking advantage of her age and any perceived vulnerability because of that or are they doing it because they are a wanker?

I guess it depends what your grandma is willing to do. She could call their bluff and say either come and take the dog, or write a letter confirming you have given the dog to me.

Since they don't appear to actually want the dog they may, if they think she means it, hand over the dog. she can then get the microchip changed with evidence that the dog is hers. I'm not sure if someone can just walk into a vet and change the microchip details or anyone would just grab a dog and do that. Of course, there is the risk that she will lose the dog. But how miserable would she be with them using the dog over and over again.

Don't do what we want - we take the dog
escalating to - give us cash or we take the dog???

W00woo Thu 07-May-15 08:12:04

Your nan will need to give them some money, however small, and for this to be demonstratable ie receipt or bank transfer with 'dog' as reference to stop this happening again. I still think it's sensible to change the chip etc, but the can take the dog back unless she pays them.

chickenfuckingpox Thu 07-May-15 10:52:44

talk to the police take the note with you they might be able to help

duplodon Thu 07-May-15 10:56:38

I think if it's being used to extract money or control over your nan because she loves the dog and is vulnerable it could become abusive. At the moment you don't have enough have enough evidence I'd say.. so if dog can be reregistered it nips it in the bud.

Holden10 Thu 07-May-15 12:51:03

Have the dog scanned for the microchip at the vets to find out what company he's registered with and change name and address on the chip with chip company. Only about 20 quid.

molyholy Thu 07-May-15 13:14:03

Nothing helpful to add apart from to say I can't believe somebody could be so cruel. Your relative is a bully. Good job your Nan has you looking out for her.

toboldlygo Thu 07-May-15 13:34:41

Microchips are not proof of ownership and the details on the chip cannot be changed without authorisation from the previous owner -

It is abusive behaviour and I'm sorry she's stuck in this situation. Would the family member consider 'selling' the dog to nan (for a token sum) and sign a receipt to this effect?

TiredButFine Thu 07-May-15 19:11:58

I think we need to try to buy the dog and get the papers signed over at some stage to stop it happening.
As it's a pedigree it has that pedigree paperwork as well as a chip, so really I'd doubt changing the chip details would help even if that were possible.
Nan has paid for food and had to register at the vets- dog injured itself having a mad half hour, relative said it can't go to the PDSA as they only allow one pedigree dog per owner and the other dog is registered, so Nan paid full whack with a private vet.
There has been talk of "it's my dog if I want it I can get it" from the relative, given that the row was started by Nan asking for money owed to her I can see this going on and on. Makes a change from the usual "I'll kill myself if I don't get x"

shewept Thu 07-May-15 19:23:54

Its emotional abuse, if they keep holding it over her. I don't know if its classed as elder abuse as its not because she is old, its because she loves the dog, and this dickhead relative would do it to anyone. i genuinely don't know.

It could also be seen as blackmail.

The dog needs to be registered to your nan or she needs to tell them she can't look after it anymore. As hard as that might be, if they keep doing this, it will be easier in the long run

WhyYesIDidEatAllThePies Thu 07-May-15 19:38:18

If this relative is often a twat over cash, I'd be tempted to go along the lines of 'sell me the dog, or you're vulnerable to me billing you for his keep when you take him back. And yes, I will go via small claims court'. Does your nan have the front to carry that off or would you have to intervene on her behalf?

Might also be worth changing locks if the relative has access to the house. Doesn't change the fact that the dog is currently, legally theirs, but it would make it more difficult for them to stroll over and take the dog for a few hours again on a whim.

KingJoffreyFanciesDarylDixon Thu 07-May-15 19:48:12

Yes, it's psychological abuse, I've just finished a course on it.

Not sure what you can do though. Maybe write to the microchip company to advise that the dog has been rehomed.

Call RSPCA for advice?

I have a friend who's a vet/animal therapist. I'll see if he's online. Hang on.

KingJoffreyFanciesDarylDixon Thu 07-May-15 19:51:42

He's not online. I've left a message.

Tell her to keep all vet's bills and food receipts.

tabulahrasa Thu 07-May-15 19:56:15

Yep keep receipts that show she's the one looking after it, do try and get the microchip changed...if you can get a period where the relative is being ok, approach them with something along the lines of not wanting them to have the hassle if the dog gets lost and needs to be collected.

The kennel club paperwork means nothing, loads of dogs don't have their current owner on them , it's completely meaningless.

TiredButFine Thu 07-May-15 20:06:55

Oh I thought the pedigree papers were important.
Relative would happily tell the police the dog was stolen. And ask them to get it back off Nan, which is what worries me as legally they do own it and next time she could have the Police taking it off her.
The front door is locked and crazy relative is currently not welcome in the house, not sure they would bother actually snatching it off the street during a walk to the shops.
Nan says there's a lot of this shouting/demanding/crying and asking for money in recent years, but this was the first incident where she almost called the police as she was upset. No one else has seen this, its when Nan is alone.

KingJoffreyFanciesDarylDixon Thu 07-May-15 20:07:44

Okay, he seems to think that the details on a microchip aren't much considered proof of ownership anyway, it's just there for lost pets.

Anyone can change the details. You need to download a form from the Petlog website. They may ask for some proof that she's caring for the dog, they may not. If she has vet receipts that's easy peasy.

Also change locks. Get a spy hole and chain. Big fence in garden. People that low are capable of anything.

TiredButFine Thu 07-May-15 21:05:11

Thanks king I will look into helping her do that. Keeping receipts is easy enough, the vet one was a few bob and as for care/food the dog seems to have endless biscuits and chews, it was getting a bit podgy!
The back garden has a high fence, door has glass windo and the dog goes nuts if a person walks past the garden gate let alone comes up to the door!

midnightvelvet01 Thu 07-May-15 21:16:49

I know this doesn't help the poor dog at all, but putting the animal aside for a sec.

If your Nan's life was improved by having a dog around & it gave her much needed company & a reason to get up in the morning then why not suggest she choose her own dog from a shelter. My cat was from a shelter & they are able to advise on the cat's personality & the type of home they think it would be happiest in so she would be fairly sure any rescued dog would be suitable for her lifestyle. Your nan would have the company & security of her own animal & the threat of abuse would be taken away.

You would have to be sure though that the relative would not dump the original dog at your nan's regardless.

This is completely ignoring the welfare of the original dog, I know that, but I'm thinking of your nan's well being.

MidniteScribbler Thu 07-May-15 23:50:08

Kennel Club paperwork doesn't actually signify ownership. Where the dog is registered with the council and who is on the microchip is what counts.

If KC (or ANKC in my case) paperwork counted, I'd own about 30 dogs lol!

honeyroar Fri 08-May-15 00:34:37

You need to buy the dog and get a receipt (for £1 if possible) from them. Tell them if not you will sue them for vets bills (give them an itemised bill) and board. Tell them you are not prepared to continue looking after the dog without transfer of ownership. I bet they will, they sound too hopeless to cope with both dogs.. I doubt the police would get involved. I've heard of cases like this involving horses and the police just say it's a civil dispute..

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