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to be dismayed people still think cuts are the route to recovery

(121 Posts)
wigglylines Thu 07-May-15 07:42:32

The cuts are harming our economy, not helping it.

The idea that austerity can get us on the road to recovery is a lie!

Even the IMF have criticised austerity.

Let's get this clear, austerity is idological. The tories want to cut public services, and are using the economic crises (caused by global forces NOT Gordon Brown!) as an excuse.

Cuts harm our economy and the people in it.

We need to invest in the people in our economy to get it going, not bring the country to its knees.

If you believe that Labour caused the crisis by being irresponsible and the Tory cuts are the way forward, can I ask where you get your information from?

Is it by any chance the Murdoch press?

Have you never considered that maybe you are being manipulated - you do know Murdoch has a massive vested interest in the Tories getting in again, right?

MarrogfromMars Thu 07-May-15 08:30:10

YANBU - Murdoch blasts his editors for not doing enough to keep Miliband out (who would change media ownership rules) and the next week the Sun front pages say "vote Tory" in England and "vote SNP" in Scotland.
And austerity is a failed, damaging economic policy, rejected by the rest of the world - as explained by a Nobel prize-winning economist www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2015/apr/29/the-austerity-delusion

PtolemysNeedle Thu 07-May-15 08:34:14

Do you think that's the only reason that someone would vote against a socialist / wannabe socialist party?

It's not.

So me people recognise that they don't really understand enough about the economy to be able to make accurate judgements on it, me included, but that's ok because it's not my job to understand how the economy works.

Investing in people is something that most people would agree with you on as being a positive thing, but we disagree on how to best do that. I don't believe that handing out generous benefits indefinitely to people who are healthy enough to provide for themselves is investing in people. I think it's writing people off as incapable of taking responsibility for themselves.

And no, my opinions aren't influenced by the Murdoch press.

Jasonandyawegunorts Thu 07-May-15 08:42:04

No party is going to heal the economy because capitalism doesn't work, not in the long term.

TravellingToad Thu 07-May-15 08:45:20

What ptolemysneedle said

KneeQuestion Thu 07-May-15 08:46:29

OP YANBU, but there are a lot of gullible idiots about.

ollieplimsoles Thu 07-May-15 08:47:41

I agree with Ptolemys

meglet Thu 07-May-15 08:48:31

yanbu.

ollieplimsoles Thu 07-May-15 08:49:00

and I do not have any access to 'Murdoch's Press' we don't own a television and don't buy/ read newspapers.

EightAce Thu 07-May-15 08:51:01

I can understand why you might want to slow the pace of spending cuts, but given that, as a country, we are still spending c. �80bn p.a. more than we receive as income, what level of deficit would be acceptable? I really don't see the fairness in burdening my children with a terrifying amount of debt. Every pound spoend on interest is a pound that could be spent elsewhere.

ollieplimsoles Thu 07-May-15 08:51:04

What, in your opinion OP, is the way to economic growth without attempting to decrease the deficit?

ollieplimsoles Thu 07-May-15 08:51:28

*attempting to decrease the deficit through cuts should I say

EightAce Thu 07-May-15 08:57:22

And by the way, I don't think anyone thinks that cuts are the route to recovery. Cuts are just something that need to be done.

The route to recovery, which we are on, is driven by job creation and increased activity. We need to stimulate this as much as we can.

BIWI Thu 07-May-15 08:59:26

Why on earth would people from the left not understand economics, whereas people from the right somehow magically do? hmm

They are all intelligent, well-educated people.

Or has that passed you by somehow?

Dawndonnaagain Thu 07-May-15 09:06:17

It's quite scary to see how the right wing rhetoric has worked its magic. We are not on a route to recovery, we are on a route to yet another economic slowdown, take a look at the latest figures. That's because austerity measures are not working. But no, for some of you, that's okay because you don't understand economics (but you're intelligent well educated people) you just want those benefit scroungers who are well enough and healthy enough to get off their arses and get jobs. Despite being shown evidence that sanctions prevent many from sitting on their arses, despite the fact that evidence has been shown proving sanctions kill, despite the fact that even the fail don't like disability cuts, and despite the fact that the largest part of the welfare bill goes to pensioners. hmm
It's a myth that Labour mess up the economy. There have been more financial crises under Tory governments than Labour.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster Thu 07-May-15 09:13:26

MarrogfromMars

grin

love how you rail against the Murdoch press before linking an opinion piece from the Guardian who are guilty of exactly the same scare tactics and total lack of impartiality.

TaintedAngel Thu 07-May-15 09:13:36

I think everyone can agree that cuts are needed. that much is obvious. I think the point is to what extent should the cuts be happening?
I do applaud David Cameron for taking the bull by the horns and getting the ball rolling but I think he has tried to do too much too quickly resulting in the country and it's people being in pieces. We need to continue making cuts but at a slower rate so that we continue to bring down the deficit but it having a lesser impact on the poorest in society who were already struggling. spread the hit over a slightly longer period of time and invest in the economy to stimulate it again.
I'm glad I can vote SNP. grin

bobbywash Thu 07-May-15 09:17:29

Dawn

On the financial crises point, that's interesting, how far are you going back wih that statistic and indeed where is the authority for it.

hellsbellsmelons Thu 07-May-15 09:27:42

Ed talks about making it better for working people. How?
He's not stated that at all?
I'm far better off now than I was under Labour and that's down to the Tory party. And I'm not a high earner and I am a single parent.
Why on earth would I want to go back on that?
Labour will tax me more, take more of my wage, which means another slow down in the economy as I won't be able to borrow what is required to buy my own house etc.....
I know which way my vote is going and I know why.
I'm not highly intelligent.
I don't read papers and very rarely watch the news.
Our economy is recovering better than anyone else in the EU - FACT!!!
It's a no brainer really!
But..... we are all different and we all have differing opinions and that's OK too!

DoraGora Thu 07-May-15 09:35:43

Small Government is a right wing belief. Sarah Palin goes on about it all the time. I'm booking seats for her next economics tour.

Stickledpink Thu 07-May-15 09:39:07

Well said hellsbells......

SaucyJack Thu 07-May-15 09:43:06

I'd agree with Ptolemy if there was enough full-time employment and affordable housing for everybody who was capable of working.

But there isn't. We have created a society where people (working or not) are dependent on hand-outs just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. Making welfare cuts without making the necessary adjustments to the cost of living or zero hour contracts is inhumane.

Fayrazzled Thu 07-May-15 09:48:23

hellsbellsmelon, not everyone votes based on what is in it for ME. Some people votes based on what's best for US.

I wish politicians would be honest about the NHS, for example. It needs more funding. It is already one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world based on costs per head and outcomes, but it needs more money to run it as the public wants it to be run and for it to be kept free at the point of use. I wish they'd be honest about it. I'd gladly pay an extra 2p in the £ on income tax to fund it. Yes, it will cost ME more, but WE'd all get more out. That's just one example.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster Thu 07-May-15 09:49:19

Dawn

'It's a myth that Labour mess up the economy. '

Labour did not cause the global economy to crash but they made damn sure that the UK was in a poor place to handle the fall out from it. The then Labour government increased public spending significantly as a share of GDP in the mid 2000s, arguing that this would be paid for by an increase in tax receipts that then did not fully materialise. External forecasters were consistently and rightly more pessimistic about the fiscal outlook than both Tony and latterly Gordon. Public sector net debt increased during a period when it was being reduced significantly in most other industrial countries. And the OECD said at the time (and says more forcefully now) that the UK entered the financial crisis with one of the largest structural budget deficits in the industrial world. This limited Labour's room for manoeuvre when the crisis hit.

Do you really believe that Labour bare zero responsibility?

Fayrazzled Thu 07-May-15 09:52:06

I aree SaucyJack. The trouble with the benefits system as it currently stands is that it effectively subsidises the corporate world. Big (and small) businesses don't need to pay their employees a proper living wage because their salaries are being topped up by tax credits etc. You'd need to legislate for higher minimum wage salaries (to living wage levels and above) before you could make changes to the benefits system, otherwise decent human beings suffer.

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