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To wonde why overseas CHB payements are *SO* skewed towards Poland?

(56 Posts)
Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 14:41:15

I realise the DM have their own 'unique' agenda in requesting the figures, publishing them etc.

But I'm having a brain fail on exactly why Poland are so far out ahead. More of the Poles who live in the UK have DC?

What's the rational (non-DM) explanation?

Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 14:44:45

Or is it just that if you rank European countries by how many of their ex-pats areliving and working here, and then remove those countries with more generous CHB equivalents than our own, that's what you're left with?

Is it that simple?

momb Fri 01-May-15 14:49:06

I don't understand the illustration: it says that the dark green is number of families and the light green is number of children. How can there be more families receiving CB than children?
22 thousand children seems more than likely. A tiny fragment of CB in the UK itself, even including all the countries on that list. No need to brain fail OP. Poland were new to the EU so there was a massive migration into and out of Poland immediately after they were accepted. In another 20 years it will be someone else.

Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 14:53:04

No need to brain fail OP. Poland were new to the EU so there was a massive migration into and out of Poland immediately after they were accepted. In another 20 years it will be someone else.

I think you might have joined me in the brain fail smile

LauraMipsum Fri 01-May-15 15:52:47

I think they've got their dark and light green mixed up, otherwise every country has more families than children.

Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 15:55:36

According to Wikipedia, Irish-born, German-born, Italian-born and French-born people all make up larger populations in the UK than Polish born people.

But I guess more of those will have taken UK citizenship,more of those will have their DPs and DCs also resident in UK and (as per me answering my own question) those four countries probably have generous child benefits.

MrsTerryPratchett Fri 01-May-15 15:56:38

If they made such an error in their graph, I'm going to go ahead and assume they are idiots not to be trusted.

Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 15:56:47

Yes Laura - that makes no sense at all (typical DM standards) and makes the differential less dramatic.

Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 15:57:39

*makes it look more dramatic on their graph - less dramatic in reality.

doradoo Fri 01-May-15 16:02:03

Is it to do with the money being sent abroad - in that perhaps most of the other nationalities move as a family so the money is paid to an EU member but stays in the UK? Not sure how they'd get that figue though?

We're Brits but my DH works in Germany so they pay our CB - we all live here so it's paid here and stays here.

When he moved in the first instance - my UK CB was stopped (even though I claimed it under my NI number and was still living in the UK with the DC) as he was no longer paying tax in the UK - I'm a SAHM.

LauraMipsum Fri 01-May-15 16:03:17

And sure enough, the same chart in this link has the colours the right way round!

As for the rational explanation, it's very rational: migrants from other EU countries tend to bring their kids with them, therefore their CHB is paid here and not sent abroad.

There is zero evidence that Polish families disproportionately claim CHB, just that they are more likely to have (typically) Dad working away while Mum & kids stay in Poland, often because the migration is a temporary rather than permanent one, whereas other EU migrants, intending to stay long-term, are more likely to bring Mum & kids (and under EEA law, also Granny, younger siblings, and any other dependents.)

The Mail should really be grateful that Polish expats are not bringing families to put further pressure on local resources wink

morage Fri 01-May-15 16:04:09

Presumably parents can only claim child benefit or its equivalent in one country? Many European countries have better child benefit provision than ours. Poland does not.

Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 16:12:16

Yes, the combined effect of the two things (whole families emigrating v breadwinners and more generous systems elsewhere) feels enough to explain it combined with the error in the graph key.

What do you mean 'sure enough' Laura? Do you think I've tampered with the graph? grin I just copied it fromthe DM a minute or two before posting the OP, but do go ahead and report the thread if you think it's iffy, it will be more than obvious from HQ's vantage point that I'm no Kipper smile

TheBoov Fri 01-May-15 16:14:40

It's that Polish men come here to work while their children stay at home in Poland. While it may seem obtuse, it's a hell of a lot less costly than the cost of their children moving over here.

LauraMipsum Fri 01-May-15 16:16:04

Sure enough the DM's ability even to copy a graph correctly is crap, Bux, no nasturtiums cast on your thread or political views. smile

Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 16:16:22

I was a bit taken aback when I saw that Labour are making an issue of it TBH.

Miltonmaid Fri 01-May-15 16:20:02

I'm pretty certain Germany has a more generous child benefit so I can't see why anyone would prefer to claim the British one and send that back to Germany unless for some reason they weren't able to claim the German one.

youngestisapyscho Fri 01-May-15 16:24:01

I'm confused... People can come here from another country to work, and they can claim UK child benefit for their children who live in another country?

OrlandoWoolf Fri 01-May-15 16:28:30

Child benefit should be paid in the country where the children are.

The same amount of money goes further in some countries than other countries.

On the DM issue - you can use data to show what you want. You can leave other data out - like a graph showing CB claimed by Europeans living in the UK - and CB claimed by British people living in the rest of Europe.

Buxhoeveden Fri 01-May-15 16:30:51

Yes youngest in the situation where a family is split between two EU countries, I think there is a free choice of which country to claim from. It works in all directions. (A British family with one of the parents living and working in Germany for example.)

Yes I heard that about the German system Milton. I've got sidetracked into looking at the whole Irish welfare system - I was supposed to be looking all the CHB systems up blush

(Ah I see Laura smile I couldn't agree more....)

Bardolino Fri 01-May-15 16:35:38

Okay, you've made me think. What's the reverse? How many UK families are claiming child benefit in (or from) Germany and how much is that costing Germany?

I know I could probably find out myself but I'm feeling lazy smile

Miltonmaid Fri 01-May-15 16:36:10

If the parent is working and paying tax then I don't see why they shouldnt be allowed to claim. Unless the rule is changed so that British citizens who have children in other countries are not eligible either.

OrlandoWoolf Fri 01-May-15 16:36:46

How many UK families are claiming child benefit in (or from) Germany and how much is that costing Germany

You'll probably need to look at Das Mail. If it exists grin

Miltonmaid Fri 01-May-15 16:38:08

I know one Bardolino smile of course they can only claim if parent is living in Germany.

Miltonmaid Fri 01-May-15 16:38:27

I should add, it's not me!

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