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To be worried that leaving the EU will break up Britain

(58 Posts)
Hannahouse Tue 14-Apr-15 13:06:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YouBetterWerk Tue 14-Apr-15 13:15:09

YANBU. It's a crazy idea for all sorts of reasons, (though I do think it needs reforming a bit) but annoyingly it's a massive vote winner for UKIP and the like so it's all people seem to bang on about without much knowledge of how damaging it would be to leave.

sparechange Tue 14-Apr-15 13:17:00

I wouldn't worry too much. The UK is not going to be leaving the EU

rollmeover Tue 14-Apr-15 13:26:12

I dont think the Uk will leave the EU. Despite what Farrage and his cronies tell us, the silent majority arent stupid and understand the benefits of the European Union.

However, if the Uk were to leave, people like me, who never in a million years would vote for Independance , would change my mind and probably vote Yes. (It definately would be the worst of two evils though)

OTheHugeManatee Tue 14-Apr-15 13:34:01

I think Scotland is going to leave the Union anyway so that wouldn't affect my view either way.

Anyway, I don't think we should stay in the EU unless something pretty radical is done about the democratic deficit. It's a failed technocratic/neoliberal experiment that is currently inflicting untold misery on millions in the eurozone. Brussels doesn't give a stuff about the democratic will of the people it attempts to govern.

It never ceases to amaze me how the people who bang on about government of the UK for the wealthy elites by the wealthy elites don't see that the EU is a far worse offender on this front than any European national government.

OTheHugeManatee Tue 14-Apr-15 13:34:49

I think Scotland is going to leave the Union anyway so that wouldn't affect my view either way.

Anyway, I don't think we should stay in the EU unless something pretty radical is done about the democratic deficit. It's a failed technocratic/neoliberal experiment that is currently inflicting untold misery on millions in the eurozone. Brussels doesn't give a stuff about the democratic will of the people it attempts to govern.

It never ceases to amaze me how the people who bang on about government of the UK for the wealthy elites by the wealthy elites don't see that the EU is a far worse offender on this front than any European national government.

mummytime Tue 14-Apr-15 13:42:56

Its unlikely the UK will leave the EU. Its already affecting our economy (although not obvious yet). DHs company won't increase the size of operations in the UK just incase - so are increasing operations in another bit of the EU, where they'd like to reduce because of labour laws but definitely isn't leaving the EU.

sparechange Tue 14-Apr-15 13:51:55

I think Scotland is going to leave the Union anyway
You know that they voted not to leave, right?
And there are no plans for another referendum any time soon?
confused

muminhants Tue 14-Apr-15 13:55:51

YANBU. I HOPE that people would be sensible to vote to stay in the EU.

Certainly the Scots would up and leave the UK if there were a vote to leave the EU (if that doesn't happen anyway, whatever the indyref result was). Probably the Welsh too. And then what would the unionists in Northern Ireland be clinging to? England?

OTheHugeManatee Tue 14-Apr-15 15:57:55

I think Scotland is going to leave the Union anyway
You know that they voted not to leave, right?
And there are no plans for another referendum any time soon?

Yes, I see all that. But whatever the result of the referendum, it was obvious even then that if the Yes vote was over 40% the issue wouldn't go away. I predict that the nationalist activists in Scotland are going to keep chipping and chipping and chipping away at any sense of unity between England and Scotland, until eventually the English and Welsh and Northern Irish will get so fed up with it that Scotland will secede by mutual agreement.

It seems to me that within England there is a general feeling that nationalism is ugly and always needs an enemy, plus blah blah oppressive colonialism etc, so people who express English nationalist feeling are considered a bit nasty and probably secret racists. But my sense is that in Scotland the nationalist narrative positions Scotland not as partners in the colonialist British Empire but as a victim of English colonialism, and as such absolutely entitled to a positive and civic-minded sense of nationalism, rooted as it is - so the story goes - in the struggle for freedom.

Whether or not you think that's true, it's a great narrative foundation for a feeling of togetherness. The Union has no such narrative for cementing a feeling of togetherness, because the people who'd normally be spreading the narrative - the UK's intelligentsia - are caught up in guilty, apologetic post-colonial anxiety and as such tub-thumping isn't really an option.

For this reason, Scotland's story is immeasurably stronger than that of the Union as a whole, and I predict for that reason it will end up winning out. It's not about economic arguments, it's about political identity and a sense of belonging and community.

ChaiseLounger Tue 14-Apr-15 16:17:02

I can't see us leaving the EU.
We can't even seem to voice our opinions, or get anything changed, or hold our own. So I can't see us having the bollocks to leave!

Hannahouse Wed 15-Apr-15 07:03:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bowlersarm Wed 15-Apr-15 07:30:18

I think Scotland will be independent too, once they have another vote, which Nicola sturgeon is now suggesting would be sooner rather than later isn't she? I think they'll leave us next time.

I honestly am not sure how a referendum would go in 2017 if it were to happen, or which way I'd vote. I need to do some serious research if it looks likely.

Kampeki Wed 15-Apr-15 07:36:21

YANBU. Cameron is playing a very dangerous game.

I reckon he's banking on the fact that he'll be able to blame his coalition partners for not going ahead with the referendum as promised. He knows it would be madness!

LaVolcan Sat 09-May-15 08:27:24

I am revitalising this thread now that the Tories have got in with a small majority.

Kampeki I agree with you. I am pretty sure that Cameron would have used the LibDems as an excuse to wriggle out of it. So now what does he do? An interesting dilemma - I may try to shed a few fake tears for the man.

He personally could throw in the towel before it comes to the vote and hand the problem on to his successor.

FuzzyWizard Sat 09-May-15 09:03:24

I've been wondering the same thing... I think he was banking on not giving a referendum and blaming the Lib Dems. He's now in power all alone and if he breaks his promise on the referendum had no one else to blame. I'd like to see how well the economic recovery he's been banging on about holds up if the markets get a whiff of the possibility of an EU exit.

CrystalCove Sat 09-May-15 09:09:29

I don't really know much about how this has arose and the level of support for it at all, but I find it ironic the threat of not being in the EU was used by the No Campaign last year to stop Scots voting Yes and now there may be a referendum on leaving the EU!!!

ragged Sat 09-May-15 09:10:45

If UK votes to stay in EU, will UKIP be like SNP & come back a stronger political force than ever? I don't think I could bear that!!

NiceBitOfCheese Sat 09-May-15 09:44:03

Friday, on PM (R4), David Steel was asked which would be more likely by 2020: Scotland being independent, or UK leaving the EU? He said, 'hopefully neither', and I so agree with him.

I voted No in the referendum. I did not vote SNP in the GE. I want Scotland to stay in the UK and for the UK to stay in the EU.

So, that's David Steel, me, and DH. Anyone else want to join us?

Sallyingforth Sat 09-May-15 10:13:36

It's clear that Cameron promised the referendum in order to stop more of his MPs defecting to ukip. He didn't really have a choice.
But yes it's very dangerous. Neither the whole UK nor any part of it is strong enough to go it alone.

Morelikeguidelines Sat 09-May-15 10:21:28

They need to phrase the question "should the United Kingdom remain in the eu". People like to vote "yes" rather than "no".

Sallyingforth Sat 09-May-15 10:26:06

But that would be considered unfair. Unfortunately.

Stickytoffeepuddingplease Sat 09-May-15 10:34:23

I don't think we will leave the EU, I just think that our attachment to it will be reformed and that more powers will be returned to our shores.

Deportation of foreign criminals etc and things like giving child benefit to EU citizens children living abroad.

No, I definitely do not think that we will leave it, as we are a trading nation. It's the policies within it that need reforming most definitely.

Monipop84 Sat 09-May-15 10:35:17

So if we have a referendum on Europe, what are the thousands and thousands of British expats running B&Bs and guest houses (or even living in retirement properties) in Spain, Portugal and Italy going to do? ‪hmm

19lottie82 Sat 09-May-15 10:44:42

I think the majority of people who "want to leave" the EU don't really understand the implications of it.
For example for UK small businesses who deal with European clients, it would be a total nightmare.

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