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How do I prove I haven't received something?

(25 Posts)
MrsSchadenfreude Tue 14-Apr-15 07:16:48

Ordered bedding from online store on eBay. Parcelforce delivered it to completely the wrong address. Three people there have told me this, and that it is their fault (and have told me the name and address where they delivered it). However, they have told eBay that it was delivered to me! I raised a dispute and eBay found in favour of the seller as Parcelforce confirmed to them that it was correctly delivered! Parcelforce are no longer engaging with me, and telling me that I will get my money back from eBay, and won't put anything in writing, confirming the wrong delivery. I'm now over £100 out of pocket - any ideas?

londonrach Tue 14-Apr-15 07:20:17

Dont understand. Three people at the address told you it be delivered there. Did they give it to you or return to sender. Do you have proof that parcelforce sent to wrong address. Can parcelforce show your signature. Back to ebay and ask for proof parcelforce delivered to you. Did you buy by credit card.

UncleT Tue 14-Apr-15 07:24:53

You need to prove nothing - they do. They don't have your signature but effectively told eBay they do. Send a complaint by registered letter demanding action and specifying the consequences - small claims court with costs in addition to refund sought. Then, if they don't do it, act on your threat - it's easy and cheap.

HeyDuggee Tue 14-Apr-15 07:25:07

eBay requires proof of delivery, so it sounds like they received one. End of day, parcel force has a contract with the sender/seller not you. So they're correct in that you need to get your money back from the seller via eBay or PayPal and the seller (their customer) then needs to raise a dispute with them.

Call eBay (you get a code sent and then call them) and talk to a real person. eBay requires proof of delivery so if they received it, it's fradulent. You need to see what they received, delivery time etc (sounds like it was tracked and signed for by someone else) and verify that isn't you, etc. forget what parcel force said on the phone - you didn't get your item, you need a refund, full stop.

MrsSchadenfreude Tue 14-Apr-15 07:31:31

Rach - 3 people at Parcelforce told me my parcel had been wrongly delivered. They claim to have tried to get it back - driver sent there the next day, no reply, card through door, no response. I have no written proof of this, but the signature for the parcel is not mine, nor is it a neighbour. It's an unusual name and a quick google search confirms that this person does live at the address where the parcel was delivered (which bears no relationship to my address and is over a mile away). The onus is on me now to get something in writing from Parcelforce, or eBay won't refund me.

MrsSchadenfreude Tue 14-Apr-15 07:35:05

Thanks Duggee - I will call them when I am back from holiday on Friday, and see where we get. According to eBay I have 30 days in which to appeal, but need written proof from Parcelforce to appeal.

londonrach Tue 14-Apr-15 07:35:13

Tbh its not you that need to proof it but ebay. If sigature isnt yours back to ebay. They need the proof not you. Forget the parcelforce issue thats not your problem. Your contact is with ebay, they havent delivered something.

londonrach Tue 14-Apr-15 07:36:05

Good luckx

MrsSchadenfreude Tue 14-Apr-15 07:49:30

Thank you!

MrsSchadenfreude Tue 14-Apr-15 09:15:21

It does look like the onus is on me to get written proof of non- delivery from Parcelforce though. Ugh. Don't need this stress.

RedToothBrush Tue 14-Apr-15 09:50:21

I used to work for a third party company that shipped goods for another through a second third party courier. We would frequently get calls from people blaming us for damaged or missing goods so I'm pretty familiar with the law on this.

Your contract of sale is with ebay NOT the courier.
This means they are responsible in your eyes for goods until you receive them. The fact that a third party delivers is irrelevant; you should treat it as if ebay were delivering themselves.
They have a contract of sale with parcel force NOT you.
This means that technically the only person who should contact the courier is ebay. The fact Parcelforce have engaged with you, is actually quite good and beyond their legal duty.

The burden of proof is on EBay NOT you to prove YOU a proof of delivery. NOT the other way wrong.

Unfortunately there are an awful lot of companies who use this confusion to not take responsibility. I've seen example on MN of Amazon trying it on, so its not restricted to small sellers. Whether this is deliberate on a corporate level or ignorance on the part of the staff dealing with the complaint is open to questioning. I do know that chasing up delivery companies is an absolute nightmare, so staff wanting to fob people off wouldn't surprise me.

I would try and turn it back on its head with ebay and ask them for the proof of delivery pointing out who the legal responsibilities lie with. Mentioning trading standards or the small claims court or publicising how they are deliberately trying to shirk their legal responsibilities might just help get things moving. Ask to speak to a manager and elevate your complaint.

Good luck. I've had stuff delivered to an incorrect address before and it took me days to resolve despite the company involved being quite helpful.

UncleT Tue 14-Apr-15 10:43:57

The onus is NOT on you in any way, no matter who you're dealing with.

MrsSchadenfreude Tue 14-Apr-15 14:47:03

Thank you RedToothBrush!

Jewels234 Tue 14-Apr-15 14:57:36

I had a similar problem. It was a long battle with ebay, a lot of time on the phone to customers services but in the end I was refunded. You need to call them and push it.

RedToothBrush Tue 14-Apr-15 15:10:03

Oh and not returning goods not addressed to you or passing them on to the rightful owner is technically against the law.

So something to keep in mind, especially if parcel force are aware they have delivered to the wrong address (and seem to have proof of this) and you are confident this is the case.

Also parcel force might not be talking to you now as they are aware they are at fault and therefore liable to ebay. IME couriers will try and make it difficult when they find this out - especially if they have a large contract where they have to meet certain %s of successful deliveries.

You are probably being messed about quite deliberately as no one wants to take the blame.

MrsSchadenfreude Tue 14-Apr-15 19:01:14

Just to clarify, before I get palmed off further, is my contract with eBay, or withe the company I bought from, via eBay?

JigsawsAreAllLittlePieces Tue 14-Apr-15 19:06:40

With the company you bought from.

HeyDuggee Tue 14-Apr-15 19:23:14

The proof of delivery is obtained by the seller. When you raise a dispute, seller must provide evidence of delivery. Since you have been told someone else signed for it (not someone imitating your signature), then I really don't understandnwhy eBay isn't ruling in your favour. If you say that person does not reside in my house, I know no one of that name, the burden of proof is on them, not you. That is why many courier companies take a photo of your open doorstep too (to prove whoever signed for it opened the door at that address).

RedToothBrush Tue 14-Apr-15 22:19:46

Legally, your contract with the seller but the purpose of ebay is to provide security and confidence for buyers and sellers alike.

Their guarantee is and I quote their [ money back guarantee]]:

We want you to shop hassle-free on eBay.

Most purchases go through with no problems at all. However, if your item doesn’t arrive or wasn’t what was described in the listing:
•We'll make sure that you get the item you ordered; or
•You’ll be refunded the purchase price and original postage costs if you paid using PayPal.

So you ALSO have this contract with ebay in addition to the one with the seller, as you are using eBay's services.

Technically. In practice... well... you obviously aren't having that.

MrsSchadenfreude Fri 17-Apr-15 16:50:34

Just back from holiday so I will call ebay later. Interestingly, the delivery details from Parcelforce, where you click on the part that tells you who signed for the parcel have been deleted...

Thanks to everyone who helped, me, I will carry on fighting!

MrsSchadenfreude Wed 22-Apr-15 12:28:12

Well no further forward. Ebay are now refusing to engage with me - I have asked several times to be called back, I have told them that I have written proof (from Parcelforce) that the parcel was delivered to the wrong address, but they just say that when they check online, on the tracking, that it says that the item was delivered. Paypal won't engage as I have opened a case with ebay. I am just being utterly shafted by ebay and the seller.

Tiptops Wed 22-Apr-15 12:40:54

I would do a chargeback through your bank OP.

MrsSchadenfreude Wed 22-Apr-15 12:50:06

yes, hoorah, the credit card company are taking it forward under "non receipt of goods".

londonrach Wed 22-Apr-15 12:51:58

Great news x

MrsSchadenfreude Sun 17-May-15 12:17:59

Quick update - credit card found in my favour and have refunded the money, but say that the retailer has 45 days in which to challenge it. I think they would find it difficult to challenge, in the face of a letter from Parcelforce confirming that it was delivered to the wrong address...

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