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In thinking its time for a change

(17 Posts)
Hamiltoes Sat 07-Feb-15 22:07:42

AIBU in thinking there is so much wrong with Westminster it seems impossible to reform. I'm watching a documentary on it now and am gobsmacked at half the stuff that goes on.

Thousands of pages worth of paper every day as they don't have up to date IT systems.

Questions for prime minister are pulled from a lucky dip, no one actually reads them and puts the most important at the top of the pile.

Amendments to bills being declined, and then withdrawn by the person who has done all the work in the hopes that the amendment will be added at a later date so the opposition can claim the credit for the persons hard work.

The booing after every sentence in the house of commons. Its absolutely horrendous that the lawmakers of this country are allowed to conduct themselves in a way that no sane human would even contemplate. Above anything else, jeering when someone else is talking is just rude.

The "theatre" of politics. I go to the actual theatre when I want dramatics. Stop wasting time and get on with your job. Out with the old and in with the new. Its 2015, are we really going to keep these idiotic traditions until the year 3000? I don't think so, now is as good a time as any to get well rid.

"Bobbing". We have grown adults bobbing up and down in parliament in the hopes of being chosen to ask a question. Why isn't this done online or through some sort of system?

The whole thing is just too far gone to even remotely resemble a base of democracy the british people could be proud of. Its you vs I, doesn't matter if you both actually agree on the issue, you shouldn't agree because you are spots and I am stripes.

And this is just what I'm picking up from watching the documentary on the Commons, without even getting started on the Lords!

Please, AIBU in thinking we would be as well just tearing the whole thing down and rebuilding it from scratch?

MrsTawdry Sat 07-Feb-15 22:13:30

YANBU and they shout at one another. That is outrageous in my opinion...adults, in charge of EVERYTHING yelling one another down!

Seriouslyffs Sat 07-Feb-15 22:25:35

The shouting and heckling is ridiculous. As far as the rest, the bobbing, random selection of questions etc. I can't get worked up- other systems have their flaws and at least this system is tried tested and cheap. Ditto the IT systems- whole generations of IT professionals and management consultants have had a very good living from rationalising government departments systems. Enough already!!

Caronaim Sat 07-Feb-15 22:38:20

Go and see it in real life. You are just talking about the theatrical occasions on the TV. Most of the donkey work is done in committees of cross party MPs using their knowledge and experience, listening and respecting each other and working together. The Lords too, is absolutely amazing. The top of every profession, you have an incredible wealth there, of deep, deep understanding about almost everything., and they work together very constructively and seamlessly across parties.

Caronaim Sat 07-Feb-15 22:39:32

PM questions are deliberately random, so that every single person gets n equal chance of being allowed to ask one, and the PM can have no notice or warning what he is going to be asked about.

hiddenhome Sat 07-Feb-15 22:43:48

It is a bit frightening. They all seem so childish and weak these days. Some of the ideas they come up with could easily be dismantled by an intelligent teenager.

Westminster seems like one big kindergarten sad

Hamiltoes Sat 07-Feb-15 22:53:54

caronaim why isn't this the part that is shown on TV then?

Everything that seems to get airtime seems the same to me. Any time I see a politician on the TV its always just blame blame more blame of opposition, and totally avoiding the question! Labour blames something on Tories, Tories say well you had 13 years, Labour avoids this completely and blasts more statistics.

I openly admit most of my knowlege on this comes from PMQ and Question Time ( blush ) as I live in Scotland so most of the political shows are focused on Holyrood... But it just seems so... childish!

What makes them think this is a good way for the majority of the british public (who don't get to see all the hard work behind the dramatics) to perceive them? Seems totally non-sensical to me! And probably half the reason voting turnout especially amongst the younger generation is so embarrassingly low.

Hamiltoes Sat 07-Feb-15 22:55:52

And about PMQ, I understand the benefit of it being random, but surely they should filter out the "suggested questions the PM would like to be asked" which are basically one big pat on the back and an excuse for everyone to cheer/ jeer depending on what side they sit on?

KristinaM Sat 07-Feb-15 22:56:59

Of course the PM knows what he is going to be asked ! Otherwise how woudl he know the answer ?

bettyboop1970 Sat 07-Feb-15 22:57:03

YANBU - Guy Fawkes had the right idea!!! Completely outdated system not fit for purpose.

Caronaim Sun 08-Feb-15 07:21:17

KristinaM - of course he doesn't know, THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT!

KristinaM Sun 08-Feb-15 07:26:28

Caro - do you think he's knows all the answers off the top of his head ?

I have been involved in providing the answers to PMQ. The questions are submitted in advance and the answers are written by civil servants

Arsenic Sun 08-Feb-15 07:27:46

Oh yes betty. Terrorism, explosives, extensive loss of life - great idea hmm

Unescorted Sun 08-Feb-15 07:39:06

Briefing notes are prepared on likely questions - this is done by the MPs staff and the civil service for committee meetings, working parties and of course for the Commons & Lords. Think of it as a knowledge funnel - complex ideas and thinking are distilled down into a 2 minute speech. It doesn't mean that the work that sits behind the answers is ill thought out - although sometimes the spin will obscure the underlying premise.

Unfortunately - professional knowlegeable people discussing the outcomes of a policy intervention, weighing up pros and cons, and how that looks and works in "the real world" and then going about implementing the policy doesn't sell newspapers and would make very dull television.

Andrewofgg Sun 08-Feb-15 07:43:00

Most of the amendments which are put down, especially in the Lords, are not in legally workable form. It makes sense for Ministers to say "We will look at this carefully, cost it where necessary, and if we agree in principle put down an amendment which will work properly at a later stage". It happens all the time.

Caronaim Sun 08-Feb-15 07:44:36

He can guess which questions are LIKELY, and prepare for them, but he can't know what questions are going to be asked. - Each questioner asks two questions, and only the first one is known in advance - and the first one is almost always can you list your appointments for the day?

Of course, if someone WANTED the pm to know what the questions were going to be about, they can list a different first question, and follow it up with a related question. In those circumstances the PM would know the first question and the topic of the second question.

No, he is not going to know all the information off the top of his head, that is why he takes notes in with him, and why he has the option of providing a written answer later if he doesn't have the information to hand.

However, as many questions are on policy, then yes, he would be expected to know the answers there and then

Caronaim Sun 08-Feb-15 07:45:33

Kristina, I am surprised you don't know how this works!

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