Advanced search

to think Gordon brown should be fighting for better pensions and benefits for the UK not just Scotland

(31 Posts)
dhdjdbrjrkbr Mon 02-Feb-15 17:29:44

Why should just Scotland get better pensions? Why not all of us?

LurkingHusband Mon 02-Feb-15 17:36:12

Because Labour is desperate ?

Toadinthehole Mon 02-Feb-15 17:36:43

YABU. I expect Gordon Brown wants those things for the whole UK. However, no one south of the border will listen to him now, so why should he waste his efforts?

I'm all for Scotland getting higher pensions and benefits paid for out of Scottish tax revenue, and that is what Gordon Brown is advocating. If it is successful, perhaps the electorate south of the border will choose the same for themselves.

It is true that to make things completely fair, the Barnett formula would have to be scrapped, but you can't have it all.

rinabean Mon 02-Feb-15 17:38:05

it says "is expected"? so you're complaining about something that's not actually happened and might not?

Andrewofgg Mon 02-Feb-15 17:39:52

Not only must Barnett go: so must MPs from Scotland voting on Bills which only apply to England.

OldLadyKnows Mon 02-Feb-15 17:40:50

Gordon Brown won't be fighting for anything, for anyone. He's currently an opposition backbencher, and won't be standing for re-election in May. This is aimed squarely at Scottish voters, because Labour support in their traditional heartlands is in freefall and the SNP are miles ahead. Labour are running scared.

Tinkerball Mon 02-Feb-15 17:42:35

Because Labour are panicking, they are about to be drastically reduced in Scotland after the next general election and they know how this will affect them in Westminster.

OOAOML Mon 02-Feb-15 17:51:08

Because Scottish Labour have to fight the election against people who say everything would be so much better if we break away from the rest of the UK as much as possible. Or have another of those 'once in a generation' votes we just had.

MauriceTheCat Mon 02-Feb-15 17:52:47

Because he is a Scottish MP who has the right to put his constituents first

Bair Mon 02-Feb-15 17:54:24

Because we get Home Rule after the no vote, wait, we've got home rule, hang on we get Home Rule if we vote Labour in Scotland.

OOAOML Mon 02-Feb-15 18:12:41

How long do you think it takes to draft, discuss, write final version and pass legislation Bair? Would you prefer the current govt rushed something through the House now?

JackSkellington Mon 02-Feb-15 18:16:59

As OldLady said, we're looking at a large SNP majority and Labour are scared. We've seen it all before, it isn't going to win him the SNP voters.

Bair Mon 02-Feb-15 18:21:10

I don't expect anything rushed.

I'm just saying the Labour party in Scotland seems to have no idea what they're doing.

We have MP's tweeting they voted against an issue, then deleting the tweet when it shows they didn't vote.

Murphy says he's against fracking, but doesn't show for the vote (there was a footy photo op to be had).

They're promising 1000 more nurses! 1000 more than what? Well, whatever the SNP promise!

Gordon is promising anything he think will keep seats. Same with Home Rule, Nurses, Fracking and the drinking again at Old Firm Games (god help us).

Toadinthehole Mon 02-Feb-15 18:59:45

I don't see what the big deal is. If Scots are prepared to tax themselves more heavily so all these things can be paid for, they should have them.

It doesn't matter that GB isn't standing for re-election if the Labour Party is content for him to speak for them. He'll probably get a seat in the Lords anyway.

Finally, the UK parliament legislates for the whole UK. Every MP should keep the right to vote on any bill.

MoanCollins Mon 02-Feb-15 19:13:43

Is English votes for English laws being brought into power before the next election?

If England ends up with a Labour government propped up by the SNP which forces through punitive laws on England whilst rewarding the Scots I personally am up for some serious civil unrest.

MoanCollins Mon 02-Feb-15 19:14:40

It's not democracy, when you can't vote out the people who pass laws it's not democracy. I wonder if there would be a way of addressing it via human rights laws?

Bair Mon 02-Feb-15 19:17:52

What about the punitive policies we have now Moan?

Austerity, zero hour contracts, big corps not paying tax, ATOS. Is it just the Scots you hate the idea of getting one over on you? Is it ok when Cameron fucks your NHS?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 02-Feb-15 19:20:44

Its all a load if bollocks so I wouldn't worry about it. Polls are reliably showing that Labour is heading to be pretty much wiped out in Scotland, and with that any chance of a Labour majority in WM.

So Jim Murphy and now Gordon Brown have rolled out their Scottish credentials and saying that if Labour is in power Scotland will be given the moon on the stick (paid for by taxing the SE of England), and that Scottish Labour is for Scotland yada yada yada.

Unfortunately, they can't promise this stuff. There is no such thing as Scottish Labour, it is simply an accounting unit if Labour, and anything they promised would have to be delivered by Labour in London, and that isn't going to happen.

My favourite one so far is Murphy promising a 1000 more nurses than whatever the SNP delivers...

GoingGoingGoth Mon 02-Feb-15 19:33:16

GB won't even be an MP after May (not that he's done much in the last 5 years for his constituents)

Labour are facing a backlash in Scotland and Murphy is not the saviour they were expecting. It's just another meaningless vow, same as the one they dragged him out for in September.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 02-Feb-15 19:35:45

This popped up on my twitter feed today...

OOAOML Mon 02-Feb-15 19:36:30

So you think voting SNP will help? Personally I want to vote for a UK wide party, and do my best not to risk another Tory government. I do however wish Murphy would stop the 'patriotic' angle. I don't vote on ethnic grounds and I'm fed up of him adopting Sturgeon et al's habit of wearing tartan and/or a Saltire. We know you're Scottish, you don't have to demonstrate it all the time.

OOAOML Mon 02-Feb-15 19:37:45

Of course promising the moon on a stick was more of a White Paper thing wasn't it?

Bair Mon 02-Feb-15 19:46:11

So you think voting SNP will help?

My choice here is Labour or SNP. I wouldn't vote Tory or Lib Dem or UKIP even if they had a candidate.

I'm also quite pleased with how the SNP does things up here. They're not my dream party, but I have no problem with their national pride. I'm English, doesn't bother me if they wear a Saltire.

Enough with this tactical voting shit. I'm not voting some dick I don't want to keep some other dick I really don't want out. I'm voting for who I think will do the best job.

I voted (and campaigned for Labour for years). The point itsallgoing made about there not actually being a Scottish Labour sums it up for me. Milliband lets Murphy run his mouth knowing it won't happen. Milliband doesn't care if Scottish Labour voters don't get what they were promised. We voted no, so back in your box.

OTheHugeManatee Mon 02-Feb-15 19:55:36

I think it's an excellent idea, provided they scrap the Barnett formula and make Scotlad properly independent.

All the fans of tax-and-spend can move to Scotland and all the fans of keeping more of your own money can stay south. Then we'll see in a decade which is te more desirable place to live.

I believe in democracy. If the Scots are too different ideologically from the south-east of England the. We should separate. Gordon Brown's and Labour's self-serving fudges do no-one any favours though hmm

Toadinthehole Mon 02-Feb-15 20:00:44

I imagine that if the SNP hold up in the opinion polls, there will be tactical voting.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now