To think we should get over our Apple habit(45 Posts)
Am watching the Panorama programme about Apple and really upset. I'm probably being a bit naive, but they are hypocritical and we have bought into all their lies about being ethical/caring more than others etc. Are our techie products really worth this?
I'm not watching it - would you mind summarising the anti-Apple argument for me
I've not heard anything against them as a company irl
Shocked by the Panorama programme, will need to do some more research into this and other companies before I upgrade my phone.
After banging on about how bad microsoft Windows was and seeing iTunes being as shit as it is, was a big indication to me that they weren't as ethical as they liked us to believe...panorama programme was shocking!
I recall the stories about the large number of suicides amongst their factory workers at least 6 years ago. Their answer was to install suicide nets rather than address the reasons why people would rather die than work for them
I've never owned an Apple product. Not sure how other companies are in comparison though.
What a tragic life for these people. I'm sure there are plenty of people who won't care, as long as they get their nice shiny new phone. And they cost a fortune and are manufactured for next to nothing. Ugh.
Poor working conditions in factories; horrid abuse of individuals rights; poor supply chain management - a disregard for people and their safety / lives - all the way up the chain. Denied by Apple, but found by Panorama within 2 weeks. The suicide nets bit were one of those tv moments, where I sat up. I view and write as a westerner - but huge problems with west's demand for raw materials such as tin. Just horrid, and I wonder if worth it for convenience of a text or email whilst out-and-about.
Yes, are all products the same? DH tells me that Blackberry are made in Canada, but not sure if this is true. Its really got me thinking.
I am watching. My thoughts are those who are into Apple have been found to be very narcissistic in studies, so won't give a shit as long as they are ok.
I think that we ought to start making it our business to KNOW where and how these things are made. If these things were made ethically in Britain, would it make them more popular, or wouldn't that matter?
JoanHickson do you have link to the apple/narcissism stats? It sort of makes sense when I think about the people I know who are 'apple only' snobs.
I haven't brought Apple products for the last couple of years because of the appalling conditions they keep workers in. When it became time to upgrade my old iPhone I got a Blackberry instead, shit phone but apparently the most ethical, but now my laptop is starting to get knackered. Frankly, it's so hard to know what companies to buy from when it comes to electronics. I know Samsung make decent products, but again there have been mixed reports, and you simply don't know who to trust half the time.
Never bought an apple product and never will. I refuse to join their cult like following
I think it's wrong to place the blame on Apple when every tech product is made in the same way, with the same raw materials and in the same poor working conditions.
The documentary didn't provide any information on what Apple was doing (or not doing) compared to it's competitors - does Samsung, Sony etc have the same supply chain auditing or better?
I agree the programme has made me feel uneasy about the variety of tech products I own, including the ipad I know will be sitting under my Xmas tree this year. The programme was definitely thought provoking. I was vaguely aware of the land devastation and pollution in Indonesia but to see those poor men and children toiling away in such dangerous conditions was horrible.
I don't own an Apple product- never been suckered in,
I've never owned an Apple product. I have Samsung and Motorola phones. Neither seem to have clean hands either.
I like apple products, didn't realise it made me a narcicist. I am amazed what you can be judged for.
Do Apple really suggest they are more ethical than other tech manufacturers?
I've had a Mac way back when they were genuinely better than Windows, but I've never had an iPhone/etc. I don't think apple fans are narcs but Steve Jobs - although a creative genius, undeniably - most likely was a narcissist from what I have heard about him. The entire philosophy of the company is pretty narcy too - all of the obsession with making them not compatible with anything else. It's more about the owners/directors, though, rather than the end user. Ultimately Apple products feel and look nice to use and tend to work straight out of the box, which is why they are so popular.
I agree it's not just Apple who will be exploiting human labour. (Although I've never heard/thought that they were more ethical than others, seems a strange conclusion to come to.)
I've never been aware of apple selling on their ethics, with the exception of the RED products they do ŵith bono - some of the profit from them goes to an aids charity. But it isn't unusual for a large company to have some sort of social responsibility product.
They've always sold on the fact that they are better than the competition.
Blackberry are, sadly, shite. I have one for work. Samsung are happy to steal other peoples patented work and sit it out through lengthy court cases. I don't know much about Motorola but they are hardly market leaders.
Let be honest folks, there isn't much to pick between almost all large companies. Profits come from exploitation somewhere. I'm more annoyed about companies like lush who sell on being ethical while treating their staff like shite.
but then again I'm a narcissist apparently
Agree with PP.
I am also narcissist - own iPhone and iPad. Want to know why? Because my previous version of iPhone was upgrade from Blackberry
that stopped working after 4 months , and it still works after almost 3 years. Plus it's much easier to use than any android/Blackberry phone.
I am also certain that other phones are put together exactly the same way.
Although I must admit that nokia production factory near my home in Estonia was treating people fairly well. Better than much richer companies. So respect to nokia for that
Horrific. I don't care what other companies do (at the moment), the information being given about Apple is shocking, without addressing how well or poorly Apple compares with others. Yes of course the Panorama programme was looking for holes but it found them, didn't it? Easily, as well. I got the impression that perhaps Apple don't know/care what a formality the worker's 'rights' are, and perhaps they have never (understandably) troubled themselves to visit an illegal tin mine, or search for a middle man to question about who he sells his illegal tin to. Why would they?
I can't buy an apple product in good conscience again and I strongly suspect this is true of most alternatives as well.
I have a problem with this idea that as long as you're about the same level of depravity/slightly less depraved than everyone else, it's all a much of a muchness and everyone's hands are tied. As consumers, our hands are tied because we have to have access to some version of the product and they're all unethical so that's the end of that conversation. And it shouldn't be. While as a business, apple and others seem to respond when challenged with the message, 'this isn't good enough!': 'but you should see what the other guys are like!' and, later, 'We are trying'. Apple has a vast storehouse of wealth. They're profiting from this situation and therefore they have a moral duty to do as much as they can making best use of resources as imaginatively as possible and to the best of their ability. It is disingenuous and feeble to say 'we're still trying,' when they could, if they wished, turn many aspects of this situation around inside a year.
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