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to think it's wrong for a dead woman to be used as an incubator?

(366 Posts)
twofingerstoGideon Thu 18-Dec-14 07:11:05

One of the most dreadful stories I've read in a long time. Could be triggering.

'Clinically dead' (that's dead, isn't it?) woman kept on life support machine to support 17 week fetus. Her own parents want the life support switched off. I really can't get my head around this at all.

AIBU to think we need to do everything possible to prevent our abortion laws becoming more restrictive and fight against the anti-choice demonstrators who are becoming more and more vociferous and ever-present outside clinics.

Surely even the most staunch anti-choicer can't argue that this is right.

story here

Sirzy Thu 18-Dec-14 07:15:09

If she was later in her pregnancy, or had been ill and specifically said this was Her wish then I could almost understand it. But at 17 weeks I assume that this is going to have to happen for at least 10 weeks which is wrong imo

twofingerstoGideon Thu 18-Dec-14 07:17:45

I understand she died several weeks ago, so when the fetus was even less viable than it is now.

SunnaClausIsComingToTown Thu 18-Dec-14 07:18:17

YANBU. Awful.

twofingerstoGideon Thu 18-Dec-14 07:18:32

Incidentally, I've just seen there's already a thread about this, so have asked MN to pull this one.

KateBeckett Thu 18-Dec-14 07:19:18

Haven't read the link, so just going off your OP.

I am very firmly pro choice. But I think there is an argument for this.

First of all, if the baby's dad is in the picture I think his opinion counts as much as the poor woman's parents.

Secondly, and most importantly, I think it should be taken into consideration what the woman would have wanted. If her pregnancy has reached 17wks it is likely that she was planning on keeping the baby. I imagine if she could give her opinion she would rather her child didn't die with her.

Of course I say this without full knowledge of the story, or knowing the people involved at all.

KateBeckett Thu 18-Dec-14 07:20:52

Crossed posts, just seen that her pregnancy was not as far along when this happened. In which case who knows what she would have chosen to do, so I agree. Yanbu.

twofingerstoGideon Thu 18-Dec-14 07:21:57

Her pregnancy hadn't reached 17 weeks at the time she died. She has been kept artificially alive for some weeks already.
I think this is setting a very dangerous precedent indeed.

ClashCityRocker Thu 18-Dec-14 07:32:21

For me, it depends on the circumstances. If while she was alive and able to make such a decision, and that was what she wanted, then fine.

If her parents and the baby's father had been consulted and they all agreed that's what she had wanted, and they were prepared to look after the baby then again, there is a compelling argument for this.

But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

ApocalypseThen Thu 18-Dec-14 07:34:02

I'm not clear on what this has to do with abortion?

twofingerstoGideon Thu 18-Dec-14 08:02:42

Really Apocalypse? The situation has arisen because of Ireland stringent abortion laws.

MidniteScribbler Thu 18-Dec-14 08:09:11

I think it's not something that is anyone else's business except for the family. Imagine being in this situation and having to deal with everyone criticizing your decisions and thinking they know better than the people who knew her best.

Gileswithachainsaw Thu 18-Dec-14 08:09:55

If this is what she wanted then fine.

If family made the decision because they felt that's what she would have wanted and plan to raise baby I guess fine too.

but if this is because of stupid rules from anti abortion drs/laws or whatever than its both disturbing and sick

I'm assuming the risks to the baby are pretty high. not to mention traumatic fir the poor family.

aprilanne Thu 18-Dec-14 08:11:56

this is already been done before a while back and the baby was born safe and sound .the father has rights to his child as well .its distressing i agree but her parents will have no say in the matter .

AuntieStella Thu 18-Dec-14 08:13:08

Has the long thread from yesterday been deleted?

twofingerstoGideon Thu 18-Dec-14 08:13:20

I take your point Midnite, but actually I think this is a story that very much needs to be in the public domain. There's a dangerous precedent being set here.

capsium Thu 18-Dec-14 08:16:03

If this is what she wanted and the family wants, I am fine with this.

If the woman is dead she will not be suffering. If I were alive and pregnant and had the chance to make this choice, if I were to die for some reason, I could imagine making this choice. IMO it is very similar to making a choice to donate your organs, except that your whole body is donated for a while, to sustain the baby.

ApocalypseThen Thu 18-Dec-14 08:16:05

Really Apocalypse? The situation has arisen because of Ireland stringent abortion laws.

No, it hasn't. It has arisen because of an amendment to the Irish constitution which gives equal weight to the life of a mother and foetus. This is often interpreted as an abortion law because one of ghe effects is that abortions aren't carried out unless there is a threat to the life of the mother (and sometimes not even then) but has a wider scope as we see here.

I cannot see how this dilemma would be resolved by an abortion.

Aeroflotgirl Thu 18-Dec-14 08:20:49

I agree op, she is in Ireland where it is very anti abortion, I doubt very much this has come from the family, more from the state, this is stated in the article, that the mothers life is of equal importance to that of her unborn baby so they have to offer baby an equal chance of life.

Babiecakes11 Thu 18-Dec-14 08:22:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Aeroflotgirl Thu 18-Dec-14 08:23:27

Apocolypse spot on!

ThinkIveBeenHacked Thu 18-Dec-14 08:25:33

I think if a man has lost his pregnant wife, and wishes (if possible) for the pregnancy to continue in order that he can at least ensure his baby is kept alive, then everythig that can be done should be.

At the moment the woman is Clinically Dead, however her body is still capable of sustaining and feeding the baby inside her. That is amazing! And what a blessing to the family left behind.

I am pro choice and I think in this instance,the woman is incapable of choosing. Her family have made a choice, and it is one that has no effect whatsoever on the mother.

MidniteScribbler Thu 18-Dec-14 08:25:40

But if the woman dies, the baby will die naturally. That is not an abortion. This is a choice being made to try and save what is presumably a much wanted baby. The woman's husband is the one wanting her kept alive for now. If he wanted to let her go and the government refused, that would be a different matter.

Chefpepperjack Thu 18-Dec-14 08:28:42

I think I'd want to be kept alive to give my baby a chance of survival.

I am firmly pro choice, but I think the baby deserves a chance

SistersOfPercy Thu 18-Dec-14 08:28:58

I am in agreement with a few others here and if this were me I'd want my baby to live wherever possible and if that means being kept this way then so be it.

From tragedy will come a small ray of hope for the family.

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