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To ask if people don't think they should pay their social care bills

(78 Posts)
RoastingYourChestnutsHurtsAlot Tue 09-Dec-14 20:50:02

Where is the money going to come from?

I'm genuinely confused on this one

Infinity8 Tue 09-Dec-14 21:28:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lemisscared Tue 09-Dec-14 21:29:27

^ that

Fluffyears Tue 09-Dec-14 21:59:58

Well considering when I retire I'll have paid tax and ni for 50 years (more if government get their way) why the hell should I pay again or lose the house I've worked damn hard to buy?

ClashCityRocker Tue 09-Dec-14 22:05:20

The trouble is you can work hard all your life and put away for a rainy day, be sensible with your money, and in the next bed there could be someone who has squandered all their money getting the exact same treatment.

Which is a good thing - after all, care shouldn't be only for the well off, but the current system does seem to penalize those who have been more sensible.

LaurieFairyCake Tue 09-Dec-14 22:05:53

Yes we should. When we require expensive care in a care home of course we should sell our houses to pay for it.

We come into this world with nothing, why should we leave profiting and having been a financial burden on the younger generation?

Why should I get to leave all my money and a house to one individual while draining the state or avoiding inheritance tax by giving it all away ?

Tax and NI fund current public services, not future ones - there's not enough.

No, we can't afford to retire for 30/40 years and burden the state.

My goal is to go out with nothing and not burden the state for decades holding on to 'my precious' hmm

Of course I'm selling my house if I need care- that's what the fuck it's for!!

theeternalstudent Tue 09-Dec-14 22:07:35

yes, I think I should pay for my care if I can afford it.

amicissimma Tue 09-Dec-14 22:09:12

I think NI and taxes are supposed to cover care.

If you need permanent accommodation of any sort (sheltered, a nursing home, etc), I think you should pay for it, even if that means selling your previous home. Why would you need two homes? If you move from one home to another in any other circumstances do you expect the taxpayer to buy the new one so you can keep the other?

Obviously if one of a dependent partnership goes into some kind of caring accommodation, the other other should be able to stay in their home.

TamzinGrey Tue 09-Dec-14 22:10:16

Same place as the money for maternity services and children's education comes from I suppose.

Greenfizzywater Tue 09-Dec-14 22:15:30

The trouble is you can work hard all your life and put away for a rainy day, be sensible with your money, and in the next bed there could be someone who has squandered all their money getting the exact same treatment.

If you've seen the quality of the homes that councils pay for, versus those that individuals choose to pay for, you wouldn't say that. Worlds apart. As with anything, the state will provide the basics but it might not be what you want.

hiddenhome Tue 09-Dec-14 22:31:25

I think the government should at least give us the opportunity to opt out of continuing to live rather than forcing us to remain alive and having to spend all our hard earned money paying for substandard care.

RoastingYourChestnutsHurtsAlot Tue 09-Dec-14 22:34:51

If you work out your life's contributions to tax and NI subtract for all the services you've used (education, healthcare etc) have you put enough into the pot to fund a £700+ per week care home Bill?

kwerty Tue 09-Dec-14 22:42:21

Greenfizzywater my mother pays well over £800 a week for the home she is in. She was not deemed to qualify for help despite being 98 years old and having suffered a stroke. It is a lovely new facility; ensuite facilities, tv in the room etc. Very few of the residents pay for themselves. The files on the shelf in the office are clearly marked on the spine; SF for self -funded. The majority of residents are fully funded by the state and the facilities are excellent. My mother had to sell her house to pay for her care.

lemisscared Tue 09-Dec-14 22:49:04

Greenfizz I think its interesting that you and kwerty have such polar opinions. My dad didn't have to pay. Despite working all his life he didn't own his own home. But he was in a care home that cost similar and was not treated any different to those that had to pay. The absolute disgrace was that they were all treated equally appallingly.

lemisscared Tue 09-Dec-14 22:51:37

Maybe the problem lies with the cost - care home owners making ££££'s providing substandard care. Its a bit like landlords taking the piss with rents. Lets face it the cost doesn't go to the staff who earn minimum wage!!

PausingFlatly Tue 09-Dec-14 22:52:50

Isn't this an argument for taxing more heavily during a person's earning years? To prevent them "squandering their money" when there's a high chance it will be needed later?

Essentially enforced saving.

gamerchick Tue 09-Dec-14 22:56:29

I don't intend on paying for bugger all me. I'm going to commit a decent sized crime when I can't afford to live anymore and get locked up for the rest of my days.

PausingFlatly Tue 09-Dec-14 22:56:32

Or some other form of compulsory, income-related saving?

sanfairyanne Tue 09-Dec-14 22:56:35

not true greenfizzywater. my aunt stayed in her fantastic nursing home for 20 years. first 5 funded by her house, rest funded by taxpayer. no difference in care or treatment
i have no plans to see my lifetime savings disappear when i could give it away then get same treatment anyway

3littlefrogs Tue 09-Dec-14 23:11:04

I am prepared to contribute to the cost of my care.
However, I really object to the following:

The fact that self funders pay a third more than the state pays for non payers.
The fact that a week in a basic care home costs upwards of £800 per week, yet the carers are paid minimum wage. I know two individuals who own care homes and they are both millionaires.
The fact that being a carer is regarded as something that is done by people who have no qualifications and no chance of any other sort of job. (I know some wonderful carers, but regrettably, I have come across many who were grossly unsuitable to be caring for vulnerable people).

I think many more people would care for their elderly parents at home, but carers are not valued or supported. Only when the carer has suffered complete breakdown will they get any help.

I have been caring for elderly family members for over 20 years; I also visit care homes as part of my job. I dread getting old.

Downtheroadfirstonleft Wed 10-Dec-14 18:01:24

Care has to be paid for.

It seems sensible that the person getting it, pays for it, if they can.

State funding is for those who CANNOT pay for it, not those who want to leave inheritances.

Downtheroadfirstonleft Wed 10-Dec-14 18:02:25

Meant to say that I absolutely agree with 3littlefrogs though!

WooWooOwl Wed 10-Dec-14 18:17:24

I kind of do think I should pay any social care bills I might have in my old age, but at the same time, as I doubt that I would be able to afford anything better than what some people get for free, I don't see why I should have to pay for it when others don't.

I wouldn't mind paying so much if it bought better, but we're talking thousands and thousands of pounds spent on the most basic needs which would be met regardless. I'm planning on having nothing left by the time I'm that old.

MaryWestmacott Wed 10-Dec-14 18:18:29

Through my grandmother who died 2 years ago, we saw the massive difference between homes the council place people in who have nothing and the quality of care if you can pay for it. In the nice home, there was a few places for council funded residents, but most where private and the bulk of places you just get put in aren't like that. Those places tend to be reserved for private residents who have run through their funds. It really varies round the country.

I don't believe housing should be paid for you by the state if you have £500k+ in the bank (as many people selling up their family home would have). Care yes, food and shelter, no.

I also don't think houses should be left empty for 10+ years while elderly owners are in care homes when we have a shortage of properties in many parts of the country.

When people say "leave their house to their children" they are rather imagining a short decline to death of maybe 6months to a year. The reality is that it could easily be a decade or more that they need somewhere to live and something needs to be done with the house in the time inbetween.

simbacatlivesagain Wed 10-Dec-14 18:23:10

We now have an expectation that we inherit and our parents have free care. Historically care was either paid for or provided by the family. A daughter might not marry and when the parents died she would be looked after by those who inherited or the family who were set to inherit would look after the elderly.

We are now all living longer. If we want free care when old then we need to be prepared to pay more tax throughout our working lives.

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