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To think UKIP are wrong

(219 Posts)
pauline6703 Fri 21-Nov-14 21:19:19

People come to the UK because they are suffering abuse and disadvantage in their own countries.
I think we should offer then a safe place but UKIP seems to want to let them suffer abuse and pain. I think UKIP are wrong.
What do you all thing.

2minsofyourtime Fri 21-Nov-14 21:24:49

Well yes I agree to a certain extent, but where does the money come from to house, feed and educate everyone.

Each successive government have completely failed to commit to any real house building schemes, leaving us in the current situation where supply and demand has pushed renting and buying to absurd amounts

Sarkymare Fri 21-Nov-14 21:30:53

I agree to some extent. But then we are a just a tiny island, we can't physically offer everybody who is disadvantaged in their own country a safe place here.

2old2beamum Fri 21-Nov-14 21:32:02

You speak my language.
On a broader thought I was out with a "friend" who is very anti immigration picked up a head of broccoli and said 49p that's a bargain and before I could stop myself I retorted it would be £1.49 if it wasn't for immigrants.
Can't believe how horrid we are !!!

pauline6703 Fri 21-Nov-14 21:37:59

I have a good life style and if I needed to step back to help others it would do me no harm. According to Wikipedia about one third of adults in the UK will be obese by 2020, it seems to me that less to eat would do me no harm (and the same for many others in the UK) I'd give up luxury to help others, is it that hard to do?

2minsofyourtime Fri 21-Nov-14 21:39:30

pauline6703

We don't have unlimited resources, so as nice as your sentiment is how do you propose to feed and house everyone who needs help?

RedToothBrush Fri 21-Nov-14 21:40:25

I think that UKIP don't actually think anything much, because well, they can't even agree on policies.

Their members however are twats of varying degrees of bigotry and ignorance.

HTH.

2minsofyourtime Fri 21-Nov-14 21:42:08

But we are obsese because crap food that makes us fat is cheaper than decent food. You can buy a pizza for £1 and eat that every night if you are skint but you will be fat.

Being obsese isn't necessarily about how much you eat

wasabipeanut Fri 21-Nov-14 21:42:11

YANBU.

The first two replies here seem to assume that everyone fleeing an abusive regime wants to come to the UK (they don't - amazingly countries like Germany, Italy etc. are also choice destinations).

Secondly there is an assumption that taking in migrants is an exercise in charity. It isn't - they contribute far more to the exchequer than "native" British people.

This "debate" is hysterical scaremongering. And blaming "the other" for bad employment, housing and health prospects really doesn't have a great track record.

PacificDogwood Fri 21-Nov-14 21:44:04

This country would be screwed without immigrants.

I wish people would not just react in the most base way to their own worries.
It was not immigrants that caused the recent depression.

Sarkymare Fri 21-Nov-14 21:44:36

Eating less doesn't produce more land for businesses and homes though does it?

It would be nice to help everybody but the reality is we can't. We just don't have the resources.

ArsenicSoup Fri 21-Nov-14 21:45:19

UKIP are dangerous fascists, but;

People come to the UK because they are suffering abuse and disadvantage in their own countries.

..is a nonsensical generalisation.

In fact it misses the point, as it is the influx EU migration that UKIP's promises are chiefly focussed on.

You don't really think all (or even a majority of) are fleeing desperate circumstances, do you?

Most migration is for rational non-desperate reasons.

wasabipeanut Fri 21-Nov-14 21:45:22

"We don't have unlimited resources." There isn't a fixed amount to go round divided by the number of people here. The more people contribute the more reduces we have.

Can you not see that?

wasabipeanut Fri 21-Nov-14 21:46:25

Sorry, the more resources we have.

JohnnyAlucard Fri 21-Nov-14 21:47:56

1/3 third of adults in the UK will be obese by 2020 not because they are lving a life of luxury but because they in many cases only able to afford feed themselves by cheap processed foods. You are more likely to be obese if you are poor than if you are rich. If you've only got a couple of pounds to feed your family until pay/giro day your going to buy that big bag of frozen chips for a quid from farmfoods.

If your poor in the third world you are skinny and you die young if your poor in the 4th world you get fat and die young.

Failedspinster Fri 21-Nov-14 21:48:57

I think they're wrong for lots of reasons, migration being a key one. My SIL is Italian and came here to work. She's good at her job, pays her tax whack and generally contributes. Ukip would even send her home. (And those who have a problem with her, have a problem with me.) not to mention that many health workers here weren't born in this country - look at the numbers of doctors and nurses who emigrated here from Zimbabwe to escape the regime. They've undoubtedly supported vital public health services. You can escape political issues and contribute to supporting services as a migrant here. It doesn't have to be either/or.

Additionally, their members' repellent and frankly deranged ideas about same sex couples, women and race are ridiculous. They're given airtime to express this bullshit and before you know it, it's ok to be openly racist again, under the guise of socking it to The Man.

They represent no change, only a sneering, fauxstalgic adherence to some mythical age where whole communities of white villagers joined together in wholesome rural activities, like baiting bears or lobbing rocks at elderly Asian men.

For me, everything that UKip is is represented by the Rochester by-election. It pretends to offer change, but really, it's just the same bloke in a different tie.

PacificDogwood Fri 21-Nov-14 21:50:53

Here is what they themselves have said about women and what policies they will support that will affect us all.

JohnnyAlucard Fri 21-Nov-14 21:51:15

As a civilised county we of course have a responsibility to accept refugees fleeing perscecution as part of a sensible managed immigration policy.

LouiseBrooks Fri 21-Nov-14 21:53:47

What Failedspinster said, especially the second and third paragraphs.

UKIP is BNP with a suit on as far as I'm concerned.

hiddenhome Fri 21-Nov-14 21:55:38

Okay Pauline, we'll arrange for 362 people to come and live in your house with you. It's up to you to provide the resources they need to live and also to clear up after them. You also have to give them some of your monthly income.

Enjoy smile

FruitCakey Fri 21-Nov-14 21:58:59

I think you're wrong!
Our country isn't here as a safe haven for immigrants that want to flee their country. If that was the case, our country would be over run. I want a government that thinks of the British people first! UKIP do that.

Myearhurts Fri 21-Nov-14 22:01:22

I don't agree we have unlimited resources wasabipeanut. (Excellent username by the way.) Space, housing, school places etc are all at a premium.

Frankly, I'm not really that arsed about immigration. However I believe that we should set a cap on immigration and only allow a set number of people into the UK per year. I do believe it is our duty to be flexible on this number and account for people driven here by conflict in their own county for example.

What annoys me about the EU is that they essentially dictate where we can accept immigrants from. It seems ludicrous to me that someone from Lithuania, a country with whom we have almost no historical relationship, can come to this country almost at will. Yet someone from a Commonwealth country, countries to who we owe a much bigger debt, has to practically jump through hoops and catch a unicorn to do the same.

In an ideal world I'd let anyone and everyone who wanted to live here do so, but as it's not an ideal world I do think Commonwealth countries should get the priority.

The flip side of immigration of course is that it can be viewed as a brain and talent drain. Accepting immigrants from troubled countries might seem like the kind thing to do, but if it deprives those countries of all their talented and intellectual people, is it really the best thing for these countries in the long run?

You can also make the argument that the UK isn't a good deal for immigrants and that they are essentially exploited by us, but that's probably a debate for another time.

FruitCakey Fri 21-Nov-14 22:02:11

Hiddenhome - You're exactly right.

Sarkymare Fri 21-Nov-14 22:02:40

wasabi

I wasn't assuming anything. I was answering in direct relation to the OP who was assuming that people only come here to flee violence or abuse.
I lived in a very multicultural city for over 20 years. I met many people who were new to the country. Most if not all came here for the opportunities and schools. Not because they were fleeing violence/abuse I was just stating that we cannot help every person suffering abuse or disadvantage. Our country is too small.

Which is why I agree with Johnny

as part of a sensible managed immigration policy

Failedspinster Fri 21-Nov-14 22:04:54

Which British people, Fruitcakey? The British women they deride? The British gay, lesbian and bisexual people whom they think shouldn't be allowed basic human rights? The British people who aren't white? From where I stand, they put rich old white men first, and there isn't anything different or revitalising about a party who does that.

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