To think that lots of people really do hate it when you treat them as they treat you?

[slinkyfiggy]

Especially people that pride themselves on saying it as it is and being honest with what they say?

An acquaintance that I see on regular nights out with a group of friends regularly offers unasked for advice, and is quite abrupt and direct with how she says things. I am talking about statements like "You're oversensitive", "You're being paranoid", that kind of thing. She always says how she calls a spade a spade, and how she is honest, as people like and admire honesty.

I have now apparently upset her as when we went out last weekend she asked for advice regarding her son's school reading (she thinks he is super-advanced). I said that I was sure the teachers at school would give him reading books appropriate to his level (he is year 1). Apparently I dismissed her and was abrupt (!!).

I have also come across people in the past who always make sarcastic jokes and comments but hate having the same done to them, and people that ignore texts but hate it if you don't reply to them instantly!

[slinkyfiggy]

Oh and also someone who regularly commented on other peoples' weight/appearance/clothes in a negative, breathtakingly honest kind of way but hated it when someone did it to her!!

[Buttonsofthechockind]

YANBU this drives me mad too ...

I hate it when people say stuff like 'no offence, but...' and then offend you with whatever they say, and yet when you do the same to them they don't like it!!

[cakewitch]

For my own sanity and self esteem, I've had to go nc with a friendship over this, earlier this year. I would never dream of saying the horribly snide, and breathtakingly rude things this person said to me, and still called me a friend?

[NickiFury]

I've a saying "people never remember what you do for them, they only remember what you don't do." So once you stop being so nice and not letting yourself be walked all over, they get all pissed off. It's similar I think.

My Mum prides herself on her direct way of speaking and brutal honesty, give her some back though and she will be distraught and won't speak to you for two years

[motherofmonster]

No but i usually find myself having to stop myself saying to people 'so basically your a obnoxious over opinionated cunt then' to anyone who describe themselves as being straight talking and call a spade a spade

[raltheraffe]

slinky

This type of behaviour is called emotional invalidation. I like to think of it as the double whammy insult.

Example (disclaimer; only an example, not actually casting aspersions on the way you dress)
Acquaintance: You're clothes look cheap
OP: How dare you say that, that is nasty
Acquaintance: See, you always over react.

So basically you get insulted twice. Insult one is something personal aimed at you and when you understandably get upset, you get the follow up insult whereby your emotional reaction to insult one gets criticised too.

Emotional invalidation is classed as a form of emotional abuse. This all got pointed out to me by a psychologist whom I got referred to following an abusive upbringing that led to psychiatric problems.

This woman is not psychologically healthy. I am not going to do an armchair diagnosis as 1. there is not enough info and 2. it annoys me when other posters on MN start postulating diagnoses on-line. However this behaviour is not normal and it does not surprise me that she is idealizing her son with his allegedly ultra advanced reading.

She will not change and she is damaging. It is up to you whether you tolerate this, answer back or just dump her.

[ChickenMe]

"I say it as I see it"="I'm rude"

If you need to say things like "Im as honest as the day is long" you're probably a liar.

[slinkyfiggy]

raltheraffe, that makes sense!

I have known someone in the past who prided herself on her honesty, and would regularly tell me what she thought of me. When I didn't like one of her speeches outlining my faults and told her to get lost, I was over-reacting and being horrible to her. Best thing I did was to dump her as a friend!

[FoxgloveFairy]

Funny incident years ago along these lines. My husband bought an electric lawn mower. Yes, I know. Nothing could go wrong with such an appliance obviously. He works away at sea so I mow lawns while he's away. Anyway, got the " whatever you do, ( woman ) make sure you don't go over the chord" warning. Used it for weeks without incident. He came home, used it once and ran over the chord. Unphased, he bought another one. Delivered the "do not follow my poor example, ( woman ) learn from it. Do not run over the chord" warning. Used it for weeks and didn't. Himself came home and......yep, mowed over the chord first time. Still use this incident in certain circumstances! It makes him very annoyed for some reason!

[PenelopeLane]

That post about emotional invalidation makes a lot of sense.

Reminds me of a time once two people close to me woke me after I'd gone to bed by playing music right outside my door, then when they didn't stop and I charged out to yell at them to be quiet, they filmed me on a phone and showed everyone (over the next week or so) while laughing about - and using it as evidence of - how crazy I was.

It was years ago but reading about that above was a real "a ha" moment for me about why the incident left me feeling so awful

[supersop60]

It's when a comment is followed up with "I'm just being honest!"......
well here's my honest fist....

[Coumarin]

Yy Ral's post has been an aha post for me too. An unpleasant one but I've been trying to work it out for years and often blamed myself. Especially the 'you always overreact' or 'you're so sensitive' part. Those exact words were always used and I ended up believing them. Not sure what to do with the realisation though.

I feel like 'I say it how it is' people are just excusing their inability to be emotional intelligent and their laziness in dealing with others. It's feels quite entitled too, like they have the right to say what they please but no one else has the right to react.

[Coumarin]

Is there a way of dealing with people who use 'emotional invalidation'? Or is nc the only option?

[Bulbasaur]

Keeping it real is just an excuse to have no tact. You can be honest and tactful. Ignoring social graces is not a flattering trait.

Is there a way of dealing with people who use 'emotional invalidation'? Or is nc the only option?

I'm sure there's ways. One is not backing down. If they say you're always sensitive, then you can come back with, if you know I'm sensitive then why are you still mean?

The real question is, is it worth the headache? People don't change. Standing up for yourself isn't going to make her less of a bitch.

[CromerSutra]

Yes, I completely agree. I absolutely loathe that "I speak my mind no matter what" mentality. It can be so hurtful and never works both ways.

[1hamwich4]

People who 'call a spade a spade' are generally too self-centred to think much about what they are saying, in my experience.

[ssd]

agree with all this!!

another one people who are usually arsey make "I'm a peoples person" (therefore I can say what I like)

err no, you're not

[nippiesweetie]

I find the phrase 'Don't dish it if you can't take it.' quite satisfying in these circumstances. The person won't accept it, of course, because what they say is somehow 'different' when it comes from them.

[ssd]

yes nippie, why is it different coming from them? I work beside someone who does this regularly, is extremely rude to people then when the boss was rude to him he spits the dummy out and has been complaining about her for weeks!

well, actually in his case he's just thick..

[BendyMum15]

My MIL is one of these people - she has been rude to me on numerous occasions and at first I just thought it was nerves as she is a but socially awkward and I was her son's first (and only) serious girlfriend.
The emotional invalidation thing seems to fit her behaviour well.

[Coumarin]

Bulba I like the first approach of not backing down and questioning them on it. In my case I'll try that first. Especially now I've realised what's going on and it's not actually my fault.

Really interesting.

[MrsMook]

I've ended up with minimal contact after stopping being nice about my not-so-DM, and matching her treatment of me. She never rang me, but I was berrated for not ringing her etc. In the end I stopped, wiped off the weeks of guilt that I should phone her as that time brewed up, and left her to it, and now we talk a couple of times a year.

In a circumstance similar to the DM/ PiL post, she was saying that she couldn't attend an event if Y was there. At one time I would have pleaded, which was what she wanted. She didn't take well to "that's your choice".

If someone can't handle it when you reciprocate their behaviour to you, then they're not worth pain or guilt.

[Shockers]

Perhaps people who call a spade a spade could be smacked round the head with one hamwitch .


Said to friend the other day, "Aw... little Freddie has just told me how pretty I look today."

"Humph... Don't get excited, he says that to me every day." Says she.

"That's because you are!" I reply.

See friend... it's easy to be nice!

[KingscoteStaff]

I have just spent quite a lot of Friday afternoon discussing with my Year 5 class what 'I'm not being mean, but...' actually means.

We concluded that it means 'I'm about to be mean.'

Same went for 'I'm not being funny, but...' and 'Don't take this the wrong way, but...'

[Thumbwitch]

I think most people who do this don't like it when it's done back to them, to be honest!

I don't know anyone like this who can take from others what they dish out, willy nilly.

It's like they think they have some special right to be blunt, abrasive and rude, but woe betide anyone else who thinks they can treat them with anything less than perfect courtesy!