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to wish there was a way to make young women aim higher in their choice of boyfriends? (distressing story about child abuse)

(223 Posts)
ReputableBiscuit Wed 12-Nov-14 16:07:15

First off, this young mother is categorically not to blame for what this awful man did to her child, and ALL the guilt belongs to him for his unforgivable crime and attempts to hide it. But AIBU to just wish she'd had more self-respect than to let a man with 38 prior convictions into her (and her baby's) life? How can we empower emotionally vulnerable young women to protect themselves from dangerous men? This happened local to me. It's so bloody sad.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-30019395

LurcioAgain Wed 12-Nov-14 16:17:54

I agree that this is an absolutely bloody appalling case, and I hope the guy serves a very long part of his sentence in prison.

But what makes you think that it's the case that the child's mother was aware of the 38 convictions? I see nothing in that article to suggest that she knew.

Nomama Wed 12-Nov-14 16:42:49

He's 27, how would anyone even contemplate him having that kind of track record?

yes, YABU to think she could have known/guessed but the sentiment of 'aim higher' is NU at all!

CatKisser Wed 12-Nov-14 16:45:59

Because for some people, any partner at all is preferable to being single.

Winterbells Wed 12-Nov-14 16:48:06

It is very sad.

It's such a complicated thing. It's not as simple as having self-respect. Women are raised in homes where they or their mothers are subjected to abuse and then they replicate those relationships when they are grown, often repeatedly. Even with intense therapy the cycle of abuse and victimisation continues. Abusers seek out vulnerable women who often don't see it coming, or they hope and believe that it will be different and it never is. I have worked with many women who think that their partners won't touch the children or who think that becoming a dad might somehow calm them down and make them decent people and it always ends in the worst ways.

MarjorieMelon Wed 12-Nov-14 16:52:25

It is sad and it is complicated. I know young women who are in relationships with men who are just utter scum. In one particular case a young woman is in a relationship with a drug dealer with no redeeming features whatsoever. There is no violence (yet) but he treats like he treats everyone with contempt and disrespect. But she loves him. hmm

pantone363 Wed 12-Nov-14 16:53:07

Agree. A mum at the school had previously had two partners with criminal records/past DV. The DC witnessed DV and the family were under SS. Lots of drama, police visits, screaming rows in the street.

In the end SS moved them and DC moved schools. 6 months later she is in a relationship with another man with criminal record and past DV. SS inform her of his past DV. But she lurves him so they can'fuck off'.

Tinkerball Wed 12-Nov-14 16:58:07

Yes in my experience for some women having a partner - anyone- is better than no-one. This is more likely in women with Borderline Personality Disorder because of issues associated with this. Note I am not saying AT ALL that this is the case for this woman or other women, I am not diagnosing or "blaming" BPD. Or saying that EVERYONE with BPD is like this, it's just very common.

Ellisisland Wed 12-Nov-14 17:02:35

Agree with pp that it is a very sad situation. I think there needs to be more education around relationships for young people. In the sex ed classes I remember having at school there was a lot about condoms and safe sex but I think that the emotional side of it needs to be addressed too. Young people need to made aware of emotional and physical abuse in relationships and things like warning signs, where to get help etc.
Wouldn't solve the problem but I think it would help.

Ladyfoxglove Wed 12-Nov-14 17:08:47

Yes, the pressure to be in a relationship - any relationship - is huge.

For a lot of people, the single state is seen as a failure in a world where 'the family' and couples are held up as the pinnacle of existence.

Thebodynowchillingsothere Wed 12-Nov-14 17:09:44

Poor pet. Hope this vile bastard gets what's coming to him in prison and in life. He deserves to stay in prison for the rest of his life but of course he won't! angry

As for women it's a case by case basis. Not all women are shrinking violets or duped innocents. Not all are from abusive backgrounds. Some are just neglectful uncaring bitches. Some are vulnerable and hAve mental health issues. Others are trusting and have that trust violated.

You can't possibly make sweeping generalisations. Each case is different.

Levismum Wed 12-Nov-14 17:16:25

YANBU but it needs to be remembered that in certain sections of society a criminal record is not something to be considered unusual or something to be ashamed of.

cailindana Wed 12-Nov-14 17:28:19

Sorry what?

Women must aim higher? Really?

Look, men kill women and children. Every day. That is the problem with our society. Women are brought up in a world where men can and do commit violence, every day, and get away with it. Look at Luke Batty's mum - she tried and tried and tried to figure out some way to manage the relationship between her son and her extremely dangerous husband. She believed he would never hurt Luke. The police did nothing, despite reams and reams of evidence that he was unstable. In the end, he killed Luke with a knife and a baseball bat, in front of Luke's friends and mother.

What needs to change is that the world needs to recognise that men pose a serious risk to women and children. And that something needs to be done about that. Until that happens, women and children will continue to die needlessly at the hands of violent men.

ASAS Wed 12-Nov-14 17:29:30

I've been avoiding the news all day, is this in relation to little Madison?

cailindana Wed 12-Nov-14 17:41:12

There seems to be an assumption that these men just exist and are a force of nature, like hurricanes, and that it's up to women to try to avoid them as best they can. Murdering men are not a fact of life. It is not up to women to "be empowered" to protect themselves or any such bullshit. It's up to these men to stop murdering and up to our society to see that they do so.

MarjorieMelon Wed 12-Nov-14 17:47:39

I think the issue of young women making poor relationship choices probably needs to be discussed on a separate thread really.

Look, men kill women and children. Every day. That is the problem with our society. very true but also women kill too

cailindana Wed 12-Nov-14 18:21:12

6.5% of murderers are women, on average. So, that means 93.5% of murderers are men.

Women kill men, it's true. But men kill women and other men a lot more often.

LoveBeingStartingANewLife Wed 12-Nov-14 18:35:51

Where does it say she know of his past? How do you know she wasn't a victim?

ASAS Wed 12-Nov-14 18:36:49

For anyone reading this who is terrified, you can be free. If we can help please post. If you can't post please just leave, now if you can, or tonight while he's asleep.

Nomama Wed 12-Nov-14 18:37:48

So, cailinda, are you really saying that supporting women to have more self esteem so that they can 'aim higher', make better choices for themselves, recognise shitbags more easily, not put up with said shitbag simply because he is there is a bad thing?

Are you really saying that women should not be empowered but should simply sit down and wait for men (that evil subspecies of human) to wake up to themselves and stop murdering (as all men are latent murderers)?

Meh! I'll go with teaching young girls and women who know no different, have had no strong, independent woman to model themselves on, that they can stand up and make different choices. I'll even extend that offer to young boys and men who have had equally horrendous lives and cannot make better decisions because they too have had no decent role models.

I'll leave the law to deal with criminals, of either gender!

cailindana Wed 12-Nov-14 18:47:20

I never said supporting women is a bad thing. Nor did I say all men are latent murderers.

If you want to teach women how to prevent men from murdering, go ahead. I'm sure you'll be successful.

Nomama Wed 12-Nov-14 18:56:22

See that is a definite non sequiteur... And one of those weird neo feminist stances I don't get.

You are saying that you have made an assumption - one I disagree with and would imagine a few more people will disagree with too.

You have also said it is not up to women to 'be empowered' to avoid murderers - again I would disagree... all people should be supported in making the very best choices for themselves and to avoid any recognisable signs of violence.

You see to be saying women should just sit down and wait for a man to make a decision - knocking back feminism by at least a century!

I am successful in teaching young people to make informed decisions about their own future and how to find ways to improve their own lot inspite and despite their familial backgrounds.

Chunderella Wed 12-Nov-14 19:02:56

We'd do well to tackle the underlying assumption that a woman without a partner is a failure. It's no great shock that there are some women who view any man as better than none at all: they didn't come up with this idea by themselves.

bodhranbae Wed 12-Nov-14 19:05:40

men kill women and children

the world needs to recognise that men pose a serious risk to women and children

SOME men. Some men kill.

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